Erik Ungerman died of multiple gunshots wounds after a car-to-car shooting near Avenue K and 20th Street West Sunday night. Loved ones said Ungerman worked at DirecTV as a local installation technician.
LANCASTER – Authorities have identified the victim and the suspect in the fatal car-to-car shooting at a stoplight in Lancaster Sunday night.
The victim has been identified as Lancaster resident Erik Peter Ungerman, according to the Los Angeles County Coroner’s Office.
The 34-year-old was sitting in his car at a red light on West Avenue K and 20th street West, when a gunman pulled alongside him and shot several rounds into the vehicle, Sheriff’s homicide detectives said.
After the shooting, Ungerman’s car came to rest in the Albertson’s Shopping Center. (ED FROMMER)
Ungerman was struck multiple times in the upper torso and pronounced dead at the scene, and witnesses saw a silver vehicle speeding away after the shooting, officials said. Read our previous story here.
The alleged getaway vehicle and its driver were found Monday morning, according to Lancaster Sheriff’s Captain Pat Nelson.
“At about 6:30 am [Jan. 20], deputies responded to a medical call of a man slumped over the wheel of a car over at 37th Street East and K-12. When they arrived, they found a 40-year-old male who was deceased from what appeared to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound,” Nelson said. “Deputies recognized that the vehicle matched the description of the vehicle from the shooting and called the homicide detectives… They came back and they were able to link this deceased suicide victim with the murder victim,” Nelson continued.
The murder suspect/suicide victim has been identified as 40-year-old Jeremy Whitman of Lancaster, according to the Los Angeles County Coroner’s Office.
Nelson said the suspect and the victim in the car-to-car shooting knew each other.
“It appears at this point that the shooting was as a result of some type of dispute that they had,” Nelson said. “It definitely was not a random shooting, and there’s nobody waiting at stoplights to shoot cars up.”
Those that knew both victim and suspect said the two men were best friends for many years, and the incident was a shock to many.
“Erik was an awesome man who I was in love with for nearly two years, and Jeremy Whitman was our Sunday school teacher from Lancaster Baptist Church,” said Ungerson’s former girlfriend Tiffany Martin. She said Ungerman worked at DirecTV as an installation technician.
Whitman, up until last year, was an employee at Lancaster Baptist Church, and he was also a youth pastor intern at the church many years ago, according to LBC Associate Pastor Tim Christoson.
“He was my friend and brother in Christ and a former employee,” said Christoson. “We’re requesting prayers for his immediate family and for his extended family.”
Both deaths are still under investigation. Anyone with information on either incident is urged to contact the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department’s Homicide Bureau at 323-890-5500. To remain anonymous, call Crime Stoppers at 800-222-TIPS (8477).
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UPDATED 1/23/14: In a post published to his blog today, Lancaster Baptist Church Pastor Paul Chappell remembered his “dear friend” Jeremy Whitman, whom he said had “gone home to be with the Lord.” The Lancaster Baptist Church would be providing for Whitman’s funeral costs, and would be establishing the Whitman Children Education Fund, according to Chappell.
“While I don’t understand all the details and the ‘whys,’ I choose to believe that, at least in his mind, the man who carried out the acts of last Sunday evening was not the man our church family knew and loved nine months earlier and for the twenty-plus years preceding,” Pastor Chappell wrote. Read the pastor’s entire post at paulchappell.com/2014/01/23/remembering-a-dear-friend-jeremy-whitman/.
UPDATED 1/23/14: Loved ones have created an online memorial fund for Erik Ungerman. To donate, click here.
UPDATED 1/25/14: Lancaster Baptist Church reaching out to victim’s family…
In the latest post published to his blog concerning this incident, Lancaster Baptist Church Pastor Paul Chappell gave details about a private funeral service held today for Jeremy Whitman. He said a “special memorial service” would be held in the coming days for others who wished to remember Whitman.
“Our church has also reached out to the victim’s family, the Ungermans, with financial assistance and spiritual encouragement,” Pastor Chappell wrote.
Read the entire post at: www.paulchappell.com/2014/01/25/an-update-on-the-homegoing-of-jeremy-whitman
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Previous related story: Man killed in car-to-car shooting in Lancaster
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HE WAS GAY! The victim’s sister posted pictures of him and his lover on her facebook wall. They were a couple. He went off the rails with all the guilt that they heaped on him for leaving his family to be…you know, actually in a loving relationship. Although, he was already a pretty unstable guy, and of course he couldn’t actually get real help because that would admit being actually gay.
So can we all just cut the crap and tell the truth?
Here is a link to the picture of him with his lover: https://www.facebook.com/rochelle.ungerman?fref=ts
Countless comments
And very sad speculations
Accusations should be replaced with questions. Noone will
Ever know WHY. not a single one of us were in Erik or Jeremys heart or mind.
This is a pitiful display of ” community “.
This is all the perfect example of gossip.
God is love. Focus on that for a moment.
Rochelle– This is a comments section and people are commenting, so why would you subject yourself to these unkind words? Please focus on God and His comforting words, not what people are gossiping about.
Has anyone heard what the motive was for this shooting?
What purpose does it serve anyone to know the why or motive?
You getting to know the why doesnt fix anything for.those of us who are at a very real
And irrepairable loss. Just …stop
Speak for yourself, Rochelle. For those of us who have had to deal with senseless violence, sudden death, and inexplicable loss, it *does* help to know the “why.” It helps to understand what happened, where things went wrong, so that we can come to terms with the loss and move forward with our lives. It doesn’t help the victims or the perpetrators, but it certainly helps the families who have to grieve.
Not all drugs act the same way all the time for all people. I am in the medical community and see enough of this. I know that it is not the doctor’s fault either. There is absolutely no way of predicting that a drug is going to cause this kind of side-effect. Drugs are wonderful things that help many people, but the human body and mind and spirit cannot be guaranteed to act like they are always supposed to in a laboratory. This is no one’s fault. Just look at veterans. They go nuts all the time partly because of the extremely traumatic experiences they have gone through, but also because of the drugs they are put on by the military.
Are you kidding me? This murder is absolutely someone’s fault, and his name is Jeremy Whitman. Good grief! First people were blaming Satan and now you’re blaming prescription drugs. Can we all just call a killer a killer and stop all this nonsense?!?!?
KayDee, I understand your point, but this man was not in his right mind, at least momentarily. I do agree with you in that I don’t buy the insanity defense in a criminal trial just as a defense tactic with no basis behind it. But drugs of all kinds – illegal and prescription – can cause people to temporarily “lose it.” Drugs are wonderful things that are very helpful to society, but they are not without their drawbacks either. People seem to forget that even prescription drugs can have negative effects. The sad thing is that there is no easy way of predicting these things and if or when they are going to happen. That’s why you certainly can place no blame whatsoever on the medical community. But on the other hand, you’re not dealing with a sane, logical person who is temporarily delusional by drugs, be they street or legal.
Prescription pain killers do not make people hunt down their best friends and shoot them in cold blood, while endangering others in the area. There was something very dark in Jeremy. Maybe he was suffering from an untreated mental illness or perhaps he lied to us all about the kind of person he really was.
Sorry, the prescription drug excuse does not fly.
“Jesus said, “Are you still lacking in understanding also? 17 “Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated? 18“But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. 19“For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. 20“These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.”’
SoV, in general, I agree with you. I am not a materialist. (No – not the Madonna “Material Girl” type either. In the scientific community, the etymology of that word basically means that you believe that all things are physical and biological. It disregards anything spiritual. (I fail to see how anyone with even a shred of intellectual and personal honesty can consider themselves a materialist – but that’s for another discussion.))
You and the Bible are correct that out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries……etc. Mankind has been given a conscious, which guards and inhibits our subsequent behaviors. There is no professor or chemist or biologist that has “unlocked the code” and figured out how the brain and the spirit and the soul are interconnected. It is a mystery.
The Christian faith warns against letting this guard down by letting alcohol control you instead of your conscious and/or the Holy Spirit. Alcohol and drugs can loosen inhibitions, allowing us to say an do things we would never even consider saying or doing in a millions years otherwise. So, correct, the evil thoughts still came from within, not an outside presence. The alcohol can loose the conscious which otherwise would have guarded our behavior.
Because of this great mystery and the ineffable link between mind/body/brain/soul, sometimes weird things happen. You cannot always predict how or if or when, or most importantly why, a certain drug will have helpful or zero effects on one person, while another person of the same biological makeup will have radically different effects.
The military has been known to make people temporarily crazy through experimenting and giving them hard drugs. While in general I wholeheartedly agree with your point, I am not ready to say that in some instances that drugs themselves will so radically alter a persons thinking (or lack of it), that you can always say it’s the true person you are seeing, even without their inhibitions. And because each person is different, even things less than extremely hard drugs can cause problems.
So in essence I totally agree with you, but I am not ready to say that this is always true in all cases.
SoVery,
We are not privy to all the medical and legal documents, but when it comes right down to it, we are both correct. Yes, mankind does have an evil heart (just watch the news tonight and you’ll find that out), and drugs do lower inhibitions and make us throw off the God-given gifts of conscious. I’ve never heard of this case and have never even heard of this church until a few days ago. But it only took 5 minutes to realize drugs were involved. He sounded like a guy who was not into street drugs (although people have their secrets), which makes this a classic case of legal drugs gone bad. The drugs helped bring out that inner man that otherwise would have been suppressed and kept in place.
And remember, I’m in the medical field. So don’t even think about blaming the medical community. There is absolutely no way of predicting that drugs are going to do this; real life is not as perfect as a laboratory. And no, I’m not privy to this case and have no clue as to any of the details involved, but this has drugs (legal or street) written all over it. So I’m speaking on assumption, not fact.
Back when I attended LBC it was taught that depression was a spiritual problem, not a medical one. So it is quite possible someone coming from there would not seek medical help for a mental illness. I am not sure if that is the case with Jeremy, but it would not surprise me.
Are you people really this ignorant? I don’t know these guys and didn’t even hear of this story until about 5 minutes ago and it has nothing to do with being gay, the church one or both of them went to, religion, street drugs, etc. This is a classic case of prescription drugs gone bad. Prescription drugs make all sorts of people go nuts. This was not the man’s doctor’s fault either, so don’t go laying that guilt trip on anyone. I guarantee you I’m correct.
First I would like to send prayers to both families .. I personally lost my mother who was murdered by my step father when I was 17. So I know what it is like not to know why or what exactly happen.. I never did find out why he did this to my mother other then the fact she was divorcing him and he would not let that happen. My stepfather was never arrested nor did he take his own life for my mothers death. I was left without closure.. I found myself asking the Lord why would he allow this to happen to my mother.. I never got answers,,like these two families will never know why or what the reasons were for this man to do such a heinous act. There is no excuse for it , and they will find themselves asking God why too like I was.. Time is the only healer when it comes to loss it never really stops hurting, acceptance of the loss comes and helps lesson the grief and you move on always remembering the good that person brought to your life. They will live on in our memories and they are now in a better place.
I have read all the post here for the last hour or so, I to was a member of the LBC back in 2000 , my 2 children were picked up by the bus every weekend to go. My fiance and I started attending he and both my girls baptized there, I was not baptised there because I was already baptised years before in another church. That is when I noticed when we received invitations or ministry pamphlets addressed only to my fiance and my children. None ever acknowledged my name. The church knew us as a family so why was I not included in these notices or invitations? I continued attending and asked why this was and never was given a reason as to why the church never addressed me. (I guessed because I was not baptised there) But I cant say for sure. I started to pay attention to the preachings of Pastor PC and I remember one day he was speaking about how the younger generations were getting tattoos of dragons, listening to unGodly music, having unwedded sex, his voice was callused and he was angry you could see it in his eyes.. It bothered me very much! I noticed that the greeters would wear dark suits and dark sunglasses… like a body guard would and found that to be strange. But I still continued to attend the church, for over a year never once was I welcomed when we went to church events only my kids and fiance were. When my family and I were in a time of need we went to the church to ask for help and we were told that the church does not have a fund to help their parishioners,,I was not asking for money I was asking for help to find a rental for my family to live we had been told there were other members who had homes available for members in need to help during times like this even the pastor had several rentals but we were told there was nothing the church can do to help. I was at a loss for words. I could no longer continue to attend that church after that.. to me I was shunned from the beginning when I was not baptised there.. in my own opinion I too felt this church was in some ways cultish/judgemental and unaccepting. This is just my own experience being a member of LBC .. I see that I am not the only one with these feelings after reading about this ..but in reality the church is not to blame nor are its members.. the blame belongs to one man the shooter no matter what he was going through he will be the one to face the Lord in the end. What I see here is many many people were effected by this tragedy and all are in shock and have no answers and are left with no closure … speaking out in their frustration be it defending the church and its members , or accusing and assuming trying to justify what they do not understand .. that includes myself.. I did not know either of these men but I do hope that everyone here sees that human nature can never be predicted especially when they are faced with such a sad situation,, we can not know how we will react to loss until it happens to us,, I feel for each and everyone who has left comments here that we all will find a way to comfort the families and bring closure to all..
With that said I mean not to accuse nor offend any one who has commented here.. The world we live in has an equal amount of good and evil each of us has a choice which road to travel. Have compassion for each other and the world would be a better place ,,
When your fiancé and kids were baptized at LBC, they were put into church membership automatically.
My husband & I were never baptized @ the church but we went forward to become members so we became members since 1998 or 99.We were always addressed by our last name, Bro. & Mrs. (Our last name)but since you were not married, did they know your last mane???? Did they know you weren’t married yet? I,myself agrees with the fact that the church is imperfect because my family for one thing is not perfect but I believe I serve a perfect GOD & iHE alone can judge or even destroy LBC!!!! I will continue to serve @ LBC because I believe GOD’s work is very much evident, & they outweigh the imperfections that everyone sees!!!! Just like in my own family, my husband,kids siblings & parents, we don’t always agree with everything but I never left or go out looking for a new family!!!! God has a perfect & a permissive Will in our lives but because of our sinful nature, HE has to allow HIS permissive will instead of HIS perfect will!!! In behalf of LBC, I apologized for any hurt or offenses you have had received from the church family & I pray you will continue to grow in your faith in Jesus Christ!!!! God Bless.
I meant last NAME???
I am sooo sorry about the loss of your mom at such a critical time in your youth. Divorce is called treatery in Jeremiah and Malachi. Remarriage adds insult to injury. The truth of God’s Word will offend us if we are not ready to apply it to our lives. Becaue marriage is taken so lightly we establish families that oppose God’s design and the children suffer. The husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. A fiance is not a husband an has no responibility of the husband. The truth does make us free. I was walking in darkness for many years and exposed my children to a lot of hurt. when I got saved I started readqing God’s Word and saw my sin and the damage to my children and both families. Then I got in a relationship that brough great harm to my family. God’s way is simple and brings freedom.
We all as individuals are responsible for our own salvation. We stand alone before God for judgment. No back up by man, no excuses.
Were they Gay? it had to be more than prescription drug abuse?….you don’t just up and “kill” “MURDER” your best friend. So very Sad as the week has progressed I haven’t heard or read not one comment from a mutual friend of theirs that they were anything other than friends, I just don’t understand this
Nobody seems to know or be able to answer that question. Seems to be that big elephant in the room nobody is talking about. It definitely was a crime of passion. One or two shots could be a simple dispute. This seemed a bit more than that.
Yes I agree , I think multiple gun shots and (premeditation-knowing victim would be at that area) signals RAGE = OVERKILL this is so not cool and seems to be more than a simple dispute. So question? “Motive?” What was it? And why isn’t anyone saying a definitive yes or no to the question on an affair? or had the shooter (killer) just lost his mind? I know drugs can make people wacky but taking out your best friend because your on pain killers? I don’t think so unless he’s your supplier? This just sounds as if the man (shooter) was in more pain than his shoulder. Praying for Families and yes as a former member I would like truths too because my adult child used to be under the care of Shooter in church many years ago (my child is now an adult) and this whole thing sickens me… what the heck happened? If they were Gay, nobody is throwing a stone at them, especially the victim. But Motive I just wish more was known. Because this guy….not only hurt the victim, his family and his (shooter) own family …he has hurt many young people that were under his leadership and has a whole bunch of us questioning leadership in our local churches? This is not just private issue because Jeremy Whitman made it through his actions everyone’s business. So if your out there and you have answers- say something to the police- here on this message board help us all lay this to rest
Or the passion was fear. He may have been trying to silence his victim.
So even if Jeremy had a drug problem that doesn’t explain this. It seems like drug thing is a smoke screen. This is a much deeper more like an affairs like anaffair of the heart. Two r dead one person knows, . Reverend
To whom it may concern: please do not hold a public service for Jeremy. Leave it..leave
it all alone unless you are GOING to tell the truth about what he did and what (sin and all) led up to this. Warts and all – like the Bible.
You see I didn’t know Jeremy. To me and everyone else outside the LBC circle he is a murderer. That simple.
If you cannot see that it is wrong to not show him both as he was as well as what he became then you are blind. Even the world can smell the stench of sin and death and walk away from it learning something, but can LBC?
Preach IT!!! Praise BE! HALLELUJAH!!! The word ofthe Lord is strong on this discussion board!!! Can I GET an AMEN?!?!
Amen.Let us prey.
Jesus Christ that’s a lot of bible talk and it doesn’t make a difference what you believe the end is the end and this is not what the “lord” had intended . Some one was pissed off
People we must PRAY for each other, we are all weak, and Satan is waiting to sift us like wheat! Satan is enjoying the fighting. Pray for the families and pray for yourself. Lets keep the testimony of the Gospel, for the Gospel is most important. Let not yourself be the cause for one to fall. Take on the fruit of the spirits and act like Jesus. From Canada
Amen and Amen!
a fellow Canadian, living here in Palmdale
I am so glad God is my only Judge and only have to answer to him. It seems he is the only one full of GRACE and MERCY, when we fall.
Well… except for the County of Los Angeles and the State of California. If you kill someone (as Jeremy did) they’ll be your judge as well.
Am I the only one that’s not shocked about this?I attended that church for most of my teenaged yrs. I had to go to their school but thankfully I moved years ago and got away from this cult like community. I can remember many things not bout Whitman but nothing good. He was a hypocrite and unstable. He only cared if you or your family was associated with someone with power. I hope he did help someone but as for me he helped me see the corruption that happens in s church like that.
Yes, very saddened for the families. Knew Jeremy well. What happened was on him, not the church, though no doubt all the pressure placed on him as the assistant of the “man of God” did not help matters.
As to the church, my family attended there for many years and I was in a leadership position. The church is not a cult by any definition, but in my opinion does exhibit cult-like qualities. LBC is one of many fundamental baptist churches across the country that lean extremely conservative. No issues with the doctrine or the message. It’s the leadership model that extreme IFB churches use that quickly becomes abusive and even corrupt. Die-hard and mildly brainwashed followers will never agree or acknowledge it, but they practice the elevation of a man and essentially man-worship. The “man of God” pastor will always give lip service to his simply being a humble servant. But in this leadership model, many, many loyal members idolize him to the point of worship. Standing ovations for the pastor are routine, as are lavish awards and entire events planned to praise the man. I don’t think Paul Chappell is a bad person, I just think this is the leadership model he grew up under and the one he is convinced is correct. If you look at his father and family, this is easy to see (as is the pattern of man elevation and associated abuses). This style of church leadership is prone to rampant abuses and a lack of accountability. Members are told about all kinds of financial audits and accountability checks and balances, but it is truly all smoke and mirrors.
I woke up one day, after years of joining in the man worship and chose to disagee. We parted on good terms when he “invited” me to leave and find a church not so heavy handed on the leadership.
As to my opinions above, I can certainly be disagreed with, but it can’t be said that I have not been there or don’t know of which I speak.
#1 I happen to KNOW there are quarterly audits, from an outside accountant. More than anything, it is done for liability sake. And number two, there happens to a doctrinal basis for honoring (not worship), and double honor to those who labor in the Word.
You’ve successfully demonstrated my points. One day I pray you will raise your head out of the fog as I did and experience the true joy of serving Christ alone with no intermediary laborer who rams the “double honor” verse down your throat regularly. It truly becomes a bondage.
And when you do, you will slowly realize that the IFB “walls of separtion” coined by Paul Chappell and put up to separate you from all these other believers at “non-like-minded” churches in the area, actually do love and serve The Lord as much as you do. You will feel embarrassed and lonely, for the day it occurs and you finally make the transformation known, you will be shunned by most of your long-time “brothers-in-Christ”. They will simply be obiediantly following the same rules of separation you did, only against you.
And since most of you and your children’s lives revolve around the property at 4020, this will truly cause you to feel alone. But you’ll survive it. Most do. Though, in a few cases, some reject everything they once heard and fall hard. Won’t say this describes Jeremy, but I have thought it. I’ve lived the departure.
There are multiple churches in the area who practice “saved by grace alone in faith alone”. Ask yourself why and when you bought into the separation sham which prevents you from having any fellowship whatsoever with these believers. There will be no IFB walls in heaven, so where is the justification to throw it up now? When you begin to ponder that question, you will be in a minority. No one asks such questions behind the wall. Also in doing so, you will paint a large target right on yourself.
“not so” please do not quote scripture incorrectly – you did you know.
Scripture says, let the elders that “RULE WELL” be counted worthy of double honour. KJV
There is a condition – that they “RULE WELL”. That requires discernment. If they don’t rule well they don’t receive double honour – Get it.
Is LBC “ruled well” – it doesn’t appear to be – at least not at this moment.
I know the verse from Bible reading. The only time I have EVER heard PC use it is regards to others. I don’t go to church at 4020 or 4010 (if I am lying this post has no soundness). I believe there are a HUGE number of churches preaching grace through faith, and am thankful for it. I just simply pointed out the fallacies in your post; and they stand.
No ifb walls in Heaven, & I am not a Baptist (and was clear to say so when I went to their college there). I was the only one making an issue of it- not them. I had the problem, not them. Reading your post makes that so much clearer now.
This is crazy! If I was Baptist and had college kids going to this wcbc or family going to LBC I would not be able to sleep thinking about there future friends or future husbands most of all their leadership teachers, killing! Wow this is something to think about… I was looking @ the pass messages for Winter Rivavel and their talking like this to members? To renew yourself this was a member clerk, pastoral, Sunday school teacher whatever? Tim or chapell want to call him now? But what about you? Leaders from LBC y? Don’t you guys, renew yourself too! Don’t let your position get your head! This man commit MURDER and it’s time that you Guys look at the picture here Member from LBC I don’t go here but I am shock! And would be more if my children went here for services or college you can’t even trust Church leadership! Anymore…..this church need a lot of prayer.
He didn’t work there, minister there, or attend there anymore… that was probably the problem. Drugs and alcohol are the problem; why don’t you write about that? I am keeping my kids there so this DOESNT happen.
What you wrote is either slanderous or ignorant libel. Which is it?
@didnt you hear, I think it’s called, making a comment. Because we can, and we don’t have to agree. There was nothing slanderous or libel about the comment made by Parents?
I would almost guarantee you that Jeremy’s issues were known long before he left LBC. I personally know of a former youth minister of a large IFB church that repeatedly went to church leaders for help (some of them family) and was met with an attitude of “this will pass” and eventually rigid indifference. To my knowledge leadership never asked him to leave his position – even though he was obviously no longer capable or qualified to be in the ministry due to the “sin” he was struggling with. This fellow would call his wife everyday as he left work/church to drive home pleading with her to help him make it home without killing himself. He eventually left – probably saved his life. No joke. He is now pretty much lives like the world and ridicules anyone in an IFBC – which is unfair too. He breaks my heart. The pastor and leaders had no council because like most churches they follow Christ in the flesh denying the power of God.
Anon,
Would it be an abuse for your own wife and children to honor you? Would it be wrong for them to show their appreciation regularly or routinely? You know, like on your birthday, anniversary, and at Christmas time, every year? Of if for so doing, would they be worshipping a man? Would it be wrong to plan a an event like a birthday party for you to show their appreciation and honor for you? I am sure that you would not have a problem with this at all. And considering that Pastor Chappell receives a gift from the church and a standing ovation on his birthday, church anniversary, and at Christmas time, just as you may at times in your life, what makes these events in his life so different from yours? If it is ok for this to be done for you and for you to show appreciation for others when it’s their turn, why is it so wrong for him to receive such as well? No problem for you or your family, or your friends, but when it happens to a pastor, whom many people appreciate, well then it must be “man worship”. Do you see the contradiction and hypocrisy in your argument?
Standing ovations are a very common way of showing honor to those who are appreciated. I don’t find that offensive at all. Have you ever received a standing ovation yourself? If so, I am sure it was well deserved, and given by those who appreciate you or something you have done for them. They simply stood to show admiration. Pastor Chappell has done much in the way of helping people come to Christ. Why not show appreciation for this? I do not understand why this would be a problem for him to receive an ovation. I think your premise is completely faulty. You see, just because people love and appreciate another, does not mean that they worship the person. And I think that anybody who is honest with themselves can agree to that. If you have participated in a standing ovation for anybody ever in your life, did you consider it “man worship”? Probably not. You see, once again your argument does not hold water. It seems as though what is right for one is not right for another, from your perspective.
I find it confusing that you say you do not think Pastor Chappell is a bad person, and yet you bash him? Boy, sounds like double-speak to me. If you are saved, and he is saved, why do you have such a problem with him? Aren’t you on the same side of things? Seems like friendly (or un-friendly in your case) fire. Why post such non-sense? I know he would not do the same to you. I’m pretty sure the Bible still speaks of preferring one another. Yes, PREFERRING one another, not ruining one another. GRACE is what is missing from your statements above and below, and anywhere else you may have posted. I’m pretty sure that your pastor doesn’t run things exactly like I would run them, but am I going to post stuff on the internet for those reasons? Hardly. There is no need to talk about your last church, or who hurt you, or what you are bothered by. Go out and lead somebody to the Lord, minister to somebody. I hardly think that bashing a fellow Christian is pleasing to the Lord. He even says so in His Word, remember?
Addressing the IFB issue, you need to remember what that stands for. Independent= not having a convention overseeing the church itself. The early churches did not belong to a convention of some sort. They were a body of believers, led by a pastor, who together did the work of the Lord. I am not saying that belonging to a convention is unbiblical, mind you, but there are churches that belong to conventions that even amongst them, do not believe the same things doctrinally. So, to avoid that, this Baptist church is independent. It doesn’t mean it is better. Your kids will someday be independent of you. They may do some things that you don’t agree with and not necessarily sinful, but they are still part of the family and you will still love them and not talk bad about them to others. An independent church may do some things you do not like or agree with, but it is still part of the family of believers, and you should still love them and not talk bad about them to others.
Fundamental= holding to the fundamentals of the Bible. Nobody has a problem with the fundamentals of a basketball game. The rules of the game are the basics and fundamentals of the sport. Should a Christian have a problem, if he is truly saved with the fundamentals of the Bible? I don’t believe so, but there are many who will pick and choose what parts they agree with and what parts they do not agree with. Jesus said, “Why call ye me Lord, Lord, and keep not my commandments?” We are all guilty of it, but a mature Christian will at least understand that he may fall at any time if he gets away from the fundamentals of the Word of God. I need somebody to preach to me the fundamentals of God. Because if I get away from them, then I am not living my life in accordance to the Word of God. It doesn’t make me better than you for trying to become more Christlike. But it does make us less Christlike if we don’t follow His Word.
I don’t know about you, but I need every bit of the Bible I can get. If you are a saved, then by God’s Word, you should be in a church that preaches/teaches the Word of God. You should be tithing, serving, witnessing, etc. I don’t care where you do it, but I know that the Lord does. In book of Revelation, God speaks of the church of Laodecia, the luke-warm church. Luke-warm Christianity is prevalent today. I am not saying you go to a church that would be classified as luke-warm by your definition or even by God’s, but we do know that God has a great disdain for those types of churches and better yet, luke-warm Christians, those who are saved, but don’t follow his fundamental commandments (church attendance, tithing, serving, witnessing, etc.). It is enough for me to worry about my own walk with the Lordand keep right before Him, let alone worry about somebody else’s. WE will all be held accountable before the Lord. I want to hear, “Well done, thou GOOD and FAITHFUL SERVANT.” I am sure you want to hear the same. God will not ask us if we were IFB or otherwise when we get to heaven, so it shouldn’t be any concern to us. For any that want to split hairs, they only split up their opportunity to be a blessing by being and doing what God has instructed them to be and do.
Also, Are you SINCERELY PRAYING for those that go to IFB churches or is that just a much used phrase? Jesus said that we should “pray for more laborers, for the fields are white already unto harvest.” When we get to heaven, all that will matter is how many souls we brought with us because we shared His love, not our opinions. So, with all that said, just go out and DO God’s work. Stop sowing discord and just live a life that is pleasing to God. I know he will bless you for it.
“Normal” adulation and praise of the pastor? Not man-worship? Only those behind the walls and still in the fog would agree with your long rebuttal. Significantly abnormal. And that would be ok if compared only to the world’s standards. No, this level of praise of a man is not normal, even by conservative Christian standards. But you would not be able to see that.
No doublespeak. Chappell can be a good person yet still be deluded and make bad decisions by reason of his own IFB upbringing with its model of unquestioned pastoral authority and elevation of the man. His own father and brother caved to that same model, with multiple elicit affairs while in the pastorate (well known). To his credit, he has not yet stooped to their low levels in the all-powerful IFB leadership model.
But the IFB dictatorship/elevated pastor model is quite real. 20/20 did an entire episode on the hidden abuse by extreme IFB pastors only couple of years ago. LBC skated as they focused on very similar churches on the east coast.
I’m rather amazed at how many posts mention Jeremy, and how few mention Erik. Erik is the victim of an evil and wicked man. I do pray for the families of both, but it seems that Erik is almost being overlooked in a rush to lift up Jeremy.
So many Christians on here seem to have forgotten what the Scripture says: “ALL our righteousnesses are as filthy rags” – this includes all of the good that Jeremy did during his ministry. Filthy rags, God has said. That is why we believe we need to be clothed with the righteousness of Jesus Christ. The Scripture also tells us that there is NONE righteous; no, not one. So, can we dispense with the “he was a good man” rhetoric? He may have done some good things, but he is still a sinner, and the very worst came out that day. It is horrifying to think of, but someone has said that there is no telling what depths any Christian may sink to, given the right circumstances and temptations.
I’m so very sorry for Erik and for the family that was deprived of their husband and father. I’m sorry for Jeremy’s family; I’m sure that they have been going through a bad time, too. I feel more pity for Jeremy than sorrow.
I responded one one of the posts by “Anon” – he is right. Unfortunately, as churches grow in size and/or influence, “image” and “reputation” replace Jesus Christ as what is worshipped by the leadership. Scandals are covered up because they would “hurt the cause of Christ” (true meaning being that they would hurt that church). I believe this is self-evident, as there are examples of this all over the country.
I, too, was part of such a church for many years — I fully bought into the idea that the pastor was my “man of God” and he should be consulted in everything; I had no problems with the special offerings and the standing ovations. But God, in His great mercy and lovingkindness brought me up against His word, and I began to see how all of this was man-centered, and the people involved, while being very “busy” (for Jesus, they would say, but in reality to maintain the church’s image) seldom exalted Jesus Christ. Messages were not about what the Bible says, but the Bible is used as a springboard for the pastor to “vent” about whatever is bothering him this week. Thank God, he brought me out! I attend an IFB, but one that exalts God and not the pastor. He frequently will tell people looking for guidance that they have as much of the Holy Spirit as he does, and that they should pray about a decision.
Being away has really opened my eyes; if I go back and listen to messages preached at the old church, I find that lots of stories are told that make the pastor look good, but Jesus is rarely exalted and tends to be mentioned only at the end. I have been in services where Jesus was never mentioned in an entire 45 minute message! I hear people still going there make statements like “I am waiting upon the pastor for direction” – shouldn’t that be “I’m waiting upon the Lord for direction?”
I noticed, too, that the pastor lived FAR above the richest member of the congregation, though he mouthed humble words now and then. One of the men on the inside told me that when the pastor wants something, he goes to a staff member or a deacon, tells them what he wants, and has them propose it to the church as another gift/offering to honor the pastor. The church members know nothing of this – it looks like it was a spontaneous decision by the deacons or staff, but the reality was quite different.
I am 47 years old and was a Pastor. Not one time have I ever had a standing ovation for my birthday or expected one. IFB has many egocentric Pastors.
My pastor is a great guy, but no standing ovations either. We reserve our praise for God.
Does your pastor effectively teach you the Bible. Like about talk about a man in authority- “Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.”
(Jud 1:8-13)
No??? Unbelievable!
this is why I watch Sons of Anarchy.
Not only that, but they actually take up a COLLECTION for Paul Chappell’s birthday and give him the money. You can’t make this stuff up!
Interesting rebuttal, especially when you refer to the leadership of the early New Testament churches, “The early churches did not belong to a convention of some sort. They were a body of believers, led by a pastor, who together did the work of the Lord.”
To be accurate, please refer to the Bible – not one church of the New Testament was led by a pastor! Each church recognized the headship of Jesus Christ, and elders (plural!) were then ordained to provide oversight.
The IFB model is cult-like in its focus on one man. And yes, I have been there and done that.
LBC members.
I know that most of you love your church, your pastor and your church family you have prayed, served, and have faithfully supported the “ministry” with your tithes and offerings, in addition you have sacrificed to build numerous buildings. Your life is centered on the church, your friends, your social life and employment may be there. In the IFB circles, you are looked up to, after all you facilities are beautiful, and your pastor is charismatic and sought after in your circles. You may even enjoy the perceived prestige of attending LBC. I get it, I’ve been there.
Paul Chappell and the leadership at LBC does not allow the church members to see the way things are orchestrated, they make a concerted effort to display the image that will benefit them the most. There is a system in place that is genius, The Pastoral staff know full well the type of person Paul Chappell is, they have firsthand experience, if the say that he is a great man, they are either lying or not equipped to know what constitutes a great man. The others are also aware of the goings on but the pastoral staff is convinces them that they should obey the leadership citing that they may not understand how ministry works , they teach the “umbrella” principle, meaning if you follow leadership you are under the umbrella of protection and in the will of God.
I don’t fault you for defending the pastor and ministry you love but you should be careful with your zeal, it may be counter-productive because as much as you zealously defend him Paul Chappell knows that there is information out there that can be served up to expose him. Our family was totally blindsided, we thought we were in the best church, with the best pastor and the best church family, we discovered that we were deceived and that was not fair to us. My heart’s desire has been an acknowledgement of wrong doing by LBC but instead Chappell and others have chosen to write blogs denouncing the very actions that they are guilty of as if they had not fully participated in those very actions. My desire is total exposure, not just for the sake of exposure but for the members to have in a choice in deciding if this is the kind of person they want as a pastor. If you know the truth and still want to be a part of that ministry then you have a fair and true choice.
Someone mentioned that the finances are subject to an outside audit that is not true. You may get a “compilation” from an outside company which simply means that they compile a report based on the information provided to them by the church. An audit is done when the auditors come in and track every transaction. The proof is the fact that one of your deacons embezzled thousands of dollars, do some research to see how it was discovered. The next time you get a “financial statement” notice that the numbers are summarized in such a way that it is pretty meaningless to the average person. I promise you that you could not identify salaries and benefits.
Those of us that have escaped, we should continue to speak the truth, Jesus does not need us to protect Him, contrary we honor or Christ by speaking the truth. In addition, if you were coerced into signing a non disclosure, please know that it is not valid, non disclosures do not cover wrong doing I could say so much more but I will end with a quote from Paul Chappell.
“A man persuaded against his will, is un-persuaded still.”
I am appalled that many former members of LBC take advantage of a tragic situation to justify their reason of leaving the church at the pretense of being fogged or blinded for a number of years. If you go a different path and choose not to be associated with the church any longer, then do so, period. But let us exhibit humility and be considerate. Remember, we are on the same side. It is shameful that this comment section of the article is being used to bash the pastor and the church. I have read most of these ridiculous comments and could not fathom the fact that most would go to the extent of accusing false and unproven claims. If you believe you have a legitimate claim or have been wronged by the pastor or church, then by all means, please bring it to the attention and report to the appropriate authorities. But it is not productive and right to spread lies and spin the truth much more speculate. There are only two that knows if we speak of the truth or not. Our self and The Lord. Please do what is right and just pray for the families affected.
I grew up in this church, I knew Brother Whitman, I can’t recall a single time he wasn’t smiling. He was a truly good person. I am not fond of the church anymore, I don’t attend it and I haven’t for many years, and quite frankly I hate the place, but what happened is nothing more than a tragic incident. A man killed his best friend and then took his own life, there was something seriously wrong. All of you posting “the church this, the church that,” It has nothing to do with the church, there are TWO families in unimaginable amounts of pain, not to mention countless friends who will never see either of them smile again. Whether you think you’re getting all the facts about that night it doesn’t matter. What matters is offering support and condolences to the children who no longer have a father, to the wife/girlfriend who no longer have their significant other. Instead it’s comment after comment laying blame. Two men are dead, regardless of why it happened or what church they went to. Its just so sad and heartbreaking. I remember when Jeremy got married, I can’t believe something like this happened. Stop your stupid debates on who the victim is, yes Erik is a victim of Jeremy but Jeremy was also a victim, of what? Mental illness, drug addiction? Who knows, but a sane healthy person would not have done this. Get over your stupid church debates, or who you think better person was. Why must something like this be turned into anything more than people offering support to those who knew these two men? Why make it about the church? Lancaster Baptist isn’t the victim here, these two men and their families are. How about you go and write something sincere to their families instead of posting this nonsense on a website.
Exactly! I knew Jeremy as well and this is just crazy. He hadn’t even been going to church for months at the time. Who knew what his mindset was or the whys. All that’s left is a bunch of people that love both of them dearly that are grieving.
Maybe he had a brain tumor
Good person? Unless you aren’t a Christian, then he isn’t your brother. Murderers will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, and the way to examine a false teacher is by their fruit. Can a good tree bring forth evil fruit??!
There are too many details about this story that don’t add up. I don’t think we are getting the facts. I wouldn’t be surprised if it comes out later that someone else killed them both. Dont believe everything u read on the Internet people!! Think for yourselves!
By the way, I didn’t know either of them. Just my own intelligent thinking that tells me that this sh*t doesn’t add up! And I personally feel that the people that knew them both don’t believe it either! The true story will come out eventually! Guilty parties, watch ur back!
I have thought the exact same thing.
Crazy that im not the only one thinking this
Updated info on the whole tragedy here:
http://www.paulchappell.com/2014/01/25/an-update-on-the-homegoing-of-jeremy-whitman/
GAG!! So Pastor Chappell will be remembering dear Jeremy at the evening service tomorrow. Will he spare a second for his victim Erik Ungerman??
Good pastor, should you happen to see this comment, I beg you, please spare a moment to ask your members to donate to Erik’s memorial fund. If Jeremy was such a good person, wouldn’t he want to see his best friend get a proper burial and send off, same as he has gotten?? Christ!
https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/wpv3/erik-ungerman-memorial
Have you guys not stop and think about The Lord is watching us! He is not happy everyone is makeing this more sad then it already is? I mean c’mon didn’t he just posted he is helping both family’s and if he’s not stop begging it will be nice to just pray! That he would don’t start another war!!!! Over $$$$ it’s no ones fault!
If you took the time to read Pastor’s message you would have read that LB church is proving financial and spiritual help for the Ungerman familiy. I belong to this church and been attending for over 6 years. It hurts me to see so many nasty comments about our Pastor and our church. Some have called it a cult, a call it my Savior’s, my Father’s house. The place where I found true revival and where the Word of God is explained thoroughly. Some say the truth hurts, and the truth is told every Sunday whether we like the truth or not. Reading these messages reminds me as a Christian that we need to keep praying for this valley, so many lost.
Actually, if you read the above referenced article on paulchappell.com you would see that the church has reached out financially to the victim’s family. More importantly, have you? You are so good at spouting off about what everyone else should do, what are you doing? And yes, I have donated myself. May God bless you.
I think this is a nice article for Mr. Chappel to try and cover himself. But one thing strikes me as odd. Why was he the one to tell the family? Why/How would he know first? So the Sheriff Department skipped the family of the church and went to their all powerful pastor? Hmmmm. Our maybe he had prior knowledge of the incident. …..
Believe it or not! LBC are all judgemental! And sneaky someone knew something… On Sundays class our teacher talk about a christian is another Christians worst enemy? I left thinking to myself a christian teacher talking about alcohol and drugs y? Are they talking about this in class? We are there to learn about God our Lord not about members personal problems and who had a miss carriage this is all personal! :( it’s sad! Pastor preached about homosexuality on Sunday! Who knows maybe jeremy was offendet and now he’s best friend is murder and he commit suicide watch what u say! God forgives no matter what sin they commit this is a lesson to be learn and it will be on peoples contious I hope this people who? Judge have peace in there hearts and mind forever praying that God forgives everyone judgeing!!!
Maybe one of the sheriff’s that arrived knew Jeremy and called the Pastor. Maybe the person who was contacted first, contacted the Pastor, so he could be there with the family. Who knows who the emergency contact for Jeremy was. You are speculated a lot. Maybe you should worry more about the loved one’s left behind than why the Pastor was contacted.
Pastor Chappell, I am sure, is too busy at the moment for instant blogging, and play by play updates. He’s got a few grieving families to help, among other work to do. There’s no cover up.
And why exactly is Rex making any kind of comment on anything? When was the last time he spoke about any crime that happened here? And why would Chappel refer to the statement in his blog? It appears they are trying really hard to convince the public this was completely drug related? He was taking prescription pain meds! Not shooting heroin…… I take pain meds every day. Who goes on a shooting rampage off Vicodin, seriously? I don’t trust the leadership in that church one bit. The fact that Chappel and Rex, the 2 most powerful men in the valley, are trying to sweep it under the rug, is highly suspect. Dont believe their lies…..
People are so quick to assume the church isn’t helping the Ungerman family. Before making comments, check your facts. And to say the church is only praising Jeremy Whitman as a good man isn’t true. The fact is they are all hurt, upset, shocked, and confused by this tragedy. Pastor Paul Chappell posted a blog on the church website to express how he feels. He isn’t condoning Jeremy’s actions, he is remembering him the way he knew him, as many others are doing with their comments of “Jeremy WAS a good man”. Who do you think it’s helping to state over and over again the obvious: Jeremy Whitman shot Erik Ungerman, killing him and then in turn took his own life. No one! It’s time to start the healing, it will be a long road ahead. As a spiritual leader of a church, do you honestly think Pastor Paul Chappell will speak negatively regarding this tragedy in his blog, where many people are looking for his thoughts and feelings. No, he is trying to help many who are feeling the very same things you all have expressed in your comments. So many people have been affected and he is trying give soothing words to ease their pain. Do any of you honestly feel the negativity is helping anyone? Instead, be positive, help the families through their heartache, pray for them and love them.
Much has been made about people remembering Jeremy Whitman. Many have posted extremely hateful things about a man who simply lost control of his life. I like to compare how many have chosen to remember Jeremy to how I have chosen to remember a friend who died of cancer at a fairly young age. While I was visiting the home of the cancer patient in her last days on this earth, I was asked by family members if I would like to go into her room and see her. Though I loved this person and her family, I chose not to see her in the state that she was in. I did not want to remember her as what she had become– a human with cancer that was destroying her body. I am so glad that I did not see her in manner. I could not dismiss the fact that she was ill and dying. It was simply a decision not to see her in her struggle, a sight that I didn’t want to have as my last memory of her. And now after her passing, all I have are happy memories of who and how she was before she took a turn for the worse.
I believe in many ways, this is what people are doing with their recollections of Jeremy. They recognize what Jeremy became and how his life ended. They choose not to remember those facts that caused his death. Rather, they choose to remember who he was before his eventual demise spiritually, mentally, and physically. It does not in any way excuse what he did. There is no way to explain away his actions any more than I could cause my friends cancer to go away by being angry that it took her life.
Please continue to pray and keep both families in your thoughts and prayers.
Maybe you could have provided comfort for your dear friend during her departure from this life? I would think she might have been terrified. I know I would want to be surrounded by those who loved me as I slowly died.
Golden Rule – you are so right.
“BeCareful” I hope you are treated like you treated your dying friend. You are twisted.
And you talk of the Spirit of Christ?
You are my accuser. No matter what I am you are my accuser!
Be better than I oh “BeCareful” one.
Go ahead and live in a dreamworld where you see people for what you think they were and not for who they became.
You never learn that way.
Did you see Jeremy struggle in these last months – or did you walk away.
Did you or would you have cared to see his victim struggle or do you just walk away and say things that don’t mean anything because they are all about you.
Exactly, my thoughts so you wouldn’t have to remember how cancer ridden your friend was you chose not to be a source of comfort. Definitely not done in the Spirit of Christ. You may think you were wise, but you showed yourself foolish and selfish. I am sure that it wasn’t very pretty for Jesus to raise the dead, but he did without a care about how it would affect him.
Remember sir, that I am not Christ and was not there to heal or raise her from the dead. Read the above response to “Golden Rule”. Selfish maybe, but not foolish. I comforted her by her knowing that I was there for her son, who would be the one living. I ministered to him while my other family members ministered to her. Her son still years later will ask of me for advice and prayer. She was tired, struggling for life. I had told a family member to tell her that I was praying for her. That was in the Spirit of Christ. His Spirit can take on many forms. It is not limited to physical presence, as I am sure you well know.
There’s a monumental difference between someone slowly dying of a vicious disease and another person flying off the rails and murdering a supposed friend in cold blood. While Lancaster Baptist Church and its cronies may choose to remember Jeremy Whitman in a kind light, those who have to deal with the aftermath of his actions will remember him exactly as what he was – a cowardly murderer.
It’s amazing all you armchair LBC haters, have your keyboard guns a blazing and machine gun a good church. I am in no way condoning the DOUBLE COLD BLOODED MURDERS. But don’t shoot the church, it’s a good church (not a “cult”), and Paul Chappell is a good guy, preaching the whole bible. It’s the Nazi keyboardists here, that are the cult.
They are a cult. They are a bunch of legalists. My CHRISTIAN college used to play them in basketball and they would hand out tracts to all the Christians there even when someone said they were saved they would tell them they worshipped the wrong Gospel
Legalist? They teach people are only saved by grace through faith. Maybe someone heard your college was legalist- i.e. you must be baptized, do the best you can for God, take communion, not sin no more, or some other work. The Bible doesn’t teach any of those things… Just say’n.
We are not a cult. Don’t believe what other people tell you. Experience it for yourself. Because the church exposes what the Bible says, the good and the bad doesn’t make the church or it’s members legalists. Yes, there is a strict policy for those who work in the church just like there will be a dress code at a workplace. What will that be any different in a church setting. Members and visitors are not urged, forced or otherwise to dress a certain way. What we want is for you to learn how to change your life and receive the blessings, that God has in store for any who have Faith in Him and follow his commandments.
@ Diane I agree your not a cult, however the church is very “legalistic”
le·gal·ism
noun
1. strict adherence, or the principle of strict adherence, to law or prescription, especially to the letter rather than the spirit.
2. Theology .
a. the doctrine that salvation is gained through good works.
b. the judging of conduct in terms of adherence to precise laws.
I do believe the majority of believers in the church are awesome people who love God with all their hearts, and I love that it’s a church who shares Jesus with others, however for me LBC was more hurtful during my divorce- everyone treated me like I was just in the wrong (and I am not saying divorcing is right or wrong) but I had biblical reasons for leaving my marriage, it was painful and abusive , but instead of reaching out I was shut out….so it seemed by many members when I tried to talk to someone they only wanted me in their counseling- unfortunately that was not something I felt comfortable doing. My choice and the right one for me (not saying right for all) but the experience woke me up . I now know that not all Bible believing churches are the same. I now can worship with other Christians and I know my story isn’t alone here……I come “just as I am ” to Jesus , in what ever I am wearing and He loves me for me, my heart, not my clothes and not because I crossed all my “I”s and dotted all my “t”s . Fundamentalism refers to any sect or movement within a religion that emphasizes a rigid adherence to what it conceives of as the fundamental principles of its faith . And being Legalistic or a Fundamental Christian is ok for some , but I have seen it first hand and this past week is a prime example so many rules (not God’s rules- man’s rules) is not healthy for Christians because you get so wrapped up in “what your wearing and following the rules set out by the church that you loose sight on reality to real sin” The REAL bad stuff (prime example took place last week or rather 8 months ago when Mr. Whitman took ill)……and when these kind of Christians fall they often fall hard. This does not mean we have a gold card to sin, it just means that maybe if the church (LBC) wasn’t trying to be so “perfect” this includes seeing movies ect….maybe just maybe somebody like Mr. Whitman wouldn’t have jumped over the deep end. Romans 3:23
FormerLBCmember etc:
Based upon you definitions, you have falsely accused LBC of being “legalistic”.
Reading their doctrine statements at their website, they do NOT teach or practice works salvation at all. That’s just simply incorrect. Salvation is simply believing in Jesus and Him alone. Acts 16:31.
They do not have strict adherence to the law, or they would be running around in robes, sacrificing animals, and following other old testament laws and ordinances. Legalistic is incorrect.
And, the church is not judgmental at all. Read all the now 600+ posts, and the judgmental posts are from the non-church members, attacking, attacking, attacking. Legalistic is incorrect.
I don’t attend there, but I have listened to a sermon or 100 on the website. Paul Chappell does preach biblical separation from the world. The bible does say to be not conformed to the world but to be transformed. From my experience, the more I move toward wordly vices and sinful practices, the more I get in trouble for “messing” up or sinning. I would rather be far, far away from the cliff, than right up next to it looking into the chasm. Chances are much greater you will fall in, the closer to the chasm (or in this case, the world). Please don’t beat up folks that are wanting to stay farther away from the chasm than you.
God bless you. John 3:16. Do you believe in the Jesus of the Bible? God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as one God?
As for the abusive marriage, I agree with you on protecting yourself and family by getting away from the abuser, and the divorce. I know a few in this situation, and that’s just the best thing to do, get far, far away from that abuse. I don’t beat you up from staying far away from the chasm (in this case the abuser). I commend you for your “legalistic” approach, using your definitions. :)
LBC is indeed a legalistic church. A legalist is not only someone who adds works to salvation, but also someone who thinks they can follow law to earn God’s or their pastor’s approval (sad how those can get mixed up). In the case of LBC, it is not so much God’s laws that are weighing down on the members, but the pastor’s personal standards.
After all there is no where in the Bible that prohibits women from wearing pants, requires formal Sunday attire for church, demands over-reaching pastor authority, bans certain genres of music outright, or approves renting movies from Netflix while prohibiting people from actually attending a movie at a theater (seriously, people have gotten into trouble for being seen at a movie theater watching a pg rated movie while leadership orders similar movies directly from Netflix! Does it get more asinine than that?)
LBC members’ spirituality are judged by how they work the LBC program, as designed by Paul Chappell. Three to thrive (3 services a week); following his list of meaningless mandatory volunteer workers’ standards (Col 2:20-23); giving money sacrificially; supporting the leadership without question; and being ferociously King James only.
The cognitive dissonance at LBC is deafening for those who take a step back and realize what they have been subjecting themselves and their families to. Legalism hurts our view of God and how we view our church, ourselves and our pastor.
Diana,
I worked at LBC for 9 years and your comments are exactly what I explained to workers in the interview. I have been behind closed doors in the Leadership meetings and learned how to properly word things to make them sound better than they really are. The articles I have read from the Pastor of LBC sound like more words that sound better than they really were. Jeremy was a good friend while we lived there but when he left the Pastor told the staff in staff meeting to not talk to Jeremy. That alone bothers me. If Love Works then he should allow staff friends to reach out.
A big, and false complaint I hear and read, is that Lancaster Baptist and other churches are “judgmental”. Actually the exact opposite is true, just read the 500+ posts here and on other sites. The people outside the church are FAR, FAR more attacking, judgmental, and vicious than those inside the church, that’s just the facts. Why attack, attack, attack? Really? I don’t go to church there, but all I read about, is a loving, grieving church family trying to love on those grieving and that lost loved ones.
Soooooo, the victim’s sister had posted a picture on her facebook page that makes it very clear the relationship between Erik and Jeremy. Cool with me, but is it cool with you LBC members???
https://www.facebook.com/rochelle.ungerman?fref=ts
she posted that days ago… and has been commenting on various social networks. Same with the others Erik was close to. Welcome to reality (opposed to the fairytale of a few who have been trolling, lurking, and judging).
…and members of LBC were the first to comment and like the picture. So, what do you have to say for yourself Ludlow?
I don’t believe that pic is Jeremy. But whoever it is, what is proven by two men sharing a friendly/brotherly hug?
It is definitely Jeremy- but I have NO idea what LumpLow is trying to prove.
That doesn’t look like Jeremy at all. I assumed it was his brother from her comment but I don’t know. Whatever, he was a sweet guy and I’m sorry he’s gone.
Shooting “multiple times” is RAGE this was premeditated RAGE MURDER
I just read a post given on BlogSpot this comment they said it was from the local Mayor??? is this a true statement ??? has anyone else heard this to be true where would this quote come from ???
http://mojoey.blogspot.com/2014/01/a-baptist-youth-pastor-murdersuicide.html
From our local Mayor:
Mayor R Rex Parris: I knew the person who shot the victim. He was a decent man until about a year ago. He developed a serious drug problem after a back injury that spiraled out of control until he became someone no one recognized as the person he once was. He left behind a wife, children and grieving parents and a grieving family of his victim. I have never seen anything good come from drug abuse. I frequently see catastrophic consequences. And, everyday I know that there but for the grace of God go I.
Did Mr. Whitman have a drug issue? Not trying to spread rumors but is this a factual statement?
Mayor Parris made the following comment on Antelope Valley Letters to the Editor facebook page. You have to scroll down to the post on the shooting to read his comment.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/AntelopeValleyLettersToTheEditor/
Mayor R Rex Parris I knew the person who shot the victim. He was a decent man until about a year ago. He developed a serious drug problem after a back injury that spiraled out of control until he became someone no one recognized as the person he once was. He left behind a wife, children and grieving parents and a grieving family of his victim. I have never seen anything good come from drug abuse. I frequently see catastrophic consequences. And, everyday I know that there but for the grace of God go I.
R Rex go back to being or trying to be a Mayor.. You never knew the Jeremy that every one else knew.. You dont go to LBC or you do only when the church is giving you a plack for giving the church a ok to build another not needed building Why do`nt you give some of your$921,000,000.00 that you say you`ve made ripping off people.. Why don`t you say something about MR.ERIK UNGERMAN you remember him the one that your buddy shoot and killed in cold blood.. GO TO HELL r rex
I think the man who was shot (Erik) was going to expose the shooter………..and the only way he could think to deal/stop it was to kill his friend.
expos him for what
My guess is that it was a homosexual thing and this guy threatened to tell someone….I say this because this is so prevalent in society and when it happens in a church situation…people will do anything to cover it up. I mean what could be so devastating that you would murder your best friend and yourself…..Hope it isn’t true, but I have a feeling it may be.
I had heard about this tragedy a few days ago and have been following the posts that have been written here. Let me first say how my heart breaks for these families and my thoughts and prayers are with them during this difficult time. I do not know them or have ever been to California but none the less I hurt.
It saddens me to see people post there speculation of why Jeremy did what he did. I actually know, it was the result of SIN. You can name all the sins but sin is sin and the Bible says “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God”. I understand this is amplified because of the brutality of this act however we all have sinned and are not any better and only by the grace of God that he forgives us.
May I also encourage those people who bash L.B.C , the pastor, or Christianity with these words. Man will fail you! Pastors and any men in leadership at churches or Bible colleges, your own work boss, and yes even you will fail and disappoint those around you at times. Why? Because of sin; we all have that sin nature. The main person we should be looking to during these tragic times is our Lord and Savior. I promise (as does He) He will never leave you or fail you. He is the Comforter and the Healer.
To the Ungermans, Whitmans, L.B.C, and all Christians – let’s take this tragedy up with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and pray like we never prayed before. My earnest prayer is that through this Christians and churches will grow stronger together and focused on God and not man and not the opposite. We are all one decision away of making a life changing event. I also pray that through this tragedy someone will make a life changing decision and accept Jesus as there Lord and Savior and be saved.
Praying constantly from Canada.
“AMEN”
Yes, ‘Canadian’…One man’s sin has most certainly caused the utter destruction of another man’s life and those of his loved ones are also grieving. Apparently that’s not important to you, this Pastor, or his church members.. I find it alarming that Erik Ungerman’s death and memory have been discounted by his own church peers while the same self-professed Christians can’t stop talking about what a great guy Jeremy was. That is so very wrong on every level.
to “sickofit”….
The person from Canada made excellent comments.
He is not discounting Jeremy’s horrible sin of murder, nor is he discounting the loss of precious life on Erik’s part. Yes, a great number of postings here praise Jeremy for all the good things he did in life, while Erik’s life has seemingly been thrust into the shadows. Nobody but God knew the depth of hidden depravity in Jeremy’s heart, perhaps not even Jeremy himself. Many, many people apparently only knew one side of Jeremy; hence the multitude of kind comments towards him. Men can only look on the outward appearance, but only God sees the heart. This murder was a surprise and horrific shock to Ungerman’s family, the Whitman family, LBC, and all those who knew these two men. But it is no surprise to God. This horrific event aught not cause such a stir, gossip and endless criticism in the blogs. It should cause every one of us to look at ourselves and plead “search me O God, and know my heart today….see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead my in the way everlasting”.
Again, I must say, let this be a great and sobering lesson to all those who profess in Christ to “keep thy heart with all diligence, for out of it are the issues of life”. (proverbs)
Lastly pray, pray, pray for the Ungerman and Whitman families….. they will have holes the size of craters in their hearts for many months and years to come. Don’t be a phony baloney Christian and pray two, three times. Put these two hurting families at the top of your prayer list and pray without ceasing. They need it.
I am very amazed at how some people would think that Erik (The Innocent Victim also a member), had to do something to this so called godly man in order for him to carry out this senseless act that he did. Wow, what really amazes me is how this Pastor Chappell and his followers are already putting this individual up on a silver platter. It’s obvious to me that Jeremy Whitman had a darker side to him and he only exposed that side to people who were very close to him. it is very easy to put on a false face week in and week out, but the bible says, “our true deeds will find us out and we reap what we’ve sown”. This Pastor have yet to come to the aide of the family of Erik Peter Ungerman a faithful member whom by the way Jeremy Whitman mentored. Where do Erik’s life matter in this turmoil? Pastor Chappell didn’t not Judas Iscariot, walk with Jesus Christ, God in human form for three years, and he was the disciple that carried the money bag remember!!!!! Judas was never saved he perpetrated for his own selfish reasons. Even after turning Jesus over for the thirty pieces of silver, God still would have forgiving him if he would have REPENTED FOR HIS SINS. Judas had innocent blood on his hands and he allowed Satan to deceive him as many of us have and has done in our own lives. Jeremy, chose to commit suicide, just as Judas Iscariot did he went out and hung himself as Jeremy Whitman did murdering Erik Ungerman’s innocent blood he went and killed himself. I will not apologize for stating the truth here on this blog because the Bible says, Who the Son has set free, is free indeed”. I know the truth will always set anyone free especially in the spirit realm.
Shocked… Praying for the families
It’s so funny! No one is praising a murder. I think they are reflecting on the good. If your love one died you reflect on the good. We are all Gods children. The devil has been waiting for an opportunity such as this. It’s amazing how all of a sudden people has much to say after the incident about a man a church etc. days before your mouths were shut. The bible teaches we are not to glory in another’s downfall. Christian or not we all can be taken over by oppression. We are not gods, god rains on the just and unjust. No one is immune from Gods judgement. But we all have his mercy and grace. Is the first man of god to who didn’t finish his race well? No! Will he be the last? No! Abraham out of preservation for his life said his wife was his sister, yet God still used him in a mighty way. May we never take for granted Gods grace on our lives. This could easy be you. Satan is called accuser all those who are making speculation and hating and glorying in the travesty be careful. My God tells me not to in his words Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality. Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. (Romans 12:9-21 KJV)
May you simply meditate on that be respectful and mindful of families and extended families of both parties. We have no idea what lead to this. Some live for the gossip, hype and drama, they are wanting and dying to know what can cause a man of god to fall. Here is the answer ‘free will’ it’s what god have us. Instead of blasting and having so much opinion put it to use and donate your money to help cover the cost of a funeral. Shocking to us as it may be it was never a shock to God! Compassion!
Let me identify where I stand. I am a true, Born-Again Christian. News of this situation came as a shock to me. I was able to meet Jeremy Whitman a few years ago at a conference at what seems to be a pretty unpopular church to some select haters who have commented on this article. Yes, that’s right….Lancaster Baptist Church. When I met Jeremy, he was very kind, joyful, outgoing….he was quite a guy. This situation is a sad one, and both Jeremy’s family and Erik’s family deserve our prayer and support.
To those of you haters who have posted on here bashing LBC and Pastor Chappell for “giving more attention to the killer than to the victim”, let me try and explain something. A [truly Christian] local church is unique. It’s members have a unique, family closeness that can only be experienced through God’s Holy Spirit that He places inside them. When one member messes up, it causes mourning among the others. It’s like, if a member of your family killed someone. When you hear about it, you’ll be shocked….saddened….you’d wonder, “Was there anything I could have done to help him/her, and maybe prevent this from happening?” Lord knows, you may have already tried to reach out to them, and they refused your help. You’d probably still feel guilty, even though it wasn’t your fault. You’d be searching for answers. You’d be hurting, sorry for the victim(s), sorry for what your family member did. And while you were focused on your family member and what they’ve done, trying to make sense of why….how would YOU like people picking apart your reaction, saying you didn’t give enough attention to the victim(s) of the crime? For Pete’s sake, think about it. It would be unfair for others to do that. And it’s just as unfair (and may I say, bigoted) of you to attack the church like that. They’re not at fault. They did try to help him. Don’t blame the entire family for what one member did. They’re hurting.
I don’t condone what Jeremy did. I wish I had known he was struggling, as Pastor Chappell mentioned in his article. Then, I could have been praying for him. I’m quite saddened by this situation, and I’m sickened to see all the hate that’s on here. Christians, contrary to popular opinion, are not perfect and should not be expected to be perfect. Christians are just sinners saved by the grace of Almighty God, through God the Son, Jesus Christ.
“Dan”
Thank you for your kind words, they made me cry. They are so on point. Wish more people can stop judging and start looking at themselves. We are all sinners and need God’s grace in our lives. We don’t know, and will probably will never know what really drove Jeremy to kill Erik. Only God knows and we will all be judged according to our works.
No Christians aren’t perfect, but they do have the perfect One that is joined to their spirit.
We are not talking about a goverment agency here and there response to a tragedy – we are talking about a church – it is supposed to be different. Christians are supposed to be living the example life not offering excuses.
So much flesh in the churches today. Lowering the holy standards of God to the point that they can me met by working of the flesh instead of living in the Spirit.
By Paul Chappell’s response I can see why Jeremy was not / could not get the spirit filled council he desperately needed. Thankfully, under the blood all is forgiven but it took His blood to do it.
We can all assume we know the scenario about why this happened, but we’ll never know and shouldn’t, for those who have good things to say, may change their minds and spew their venom. “Ignorance is bliss”, and I for one would rather not know. I only knew Erik briefly and he was nice.
Please stop hating on here and be thankful it’s not you and your family suffering. Even if you’re not Christian, you can be kind.
Well I am a member at LBC and I can’t seem to fit in at all and bro whitman was the first one to say Hi:) how u doing? Welcome to LBC he will always have a smile on his face everyone else seem fake they ask u if u need anything let me know and then judge you! This man kept it real I will sit by him and his wife and kids he was so nice. I forgot my bible and he was nice to let me borrow his. He was so funny jokeing around with me he made me feel welcome. Everyone else walks by you and act like they don’t see you. And have additudes really? Brothers and sisters we are here in Gods house lets love one another and pray for one another I will miss his beautiful smile :) and ofcourse I’m praying for his wife and beautiful kids! Lord this man commit murder and then suiceide I pray you help his soul and the soul of Erik lord help us to get along with one another and talk about it not fight about it! Keep us safe from all evil in Jesus name I pray amen!
Like many of us. He became very good about living the christian life in the flesh. “Fake it till you make it.” I am not saying he intentionally did this. Most christians learn christian behaviors that are entrenched in the working of the flesh and not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Very sad but true in every christians life I have ever known – myself included. If you live like this long enough having been without faith in God for so long – you no longer have faith in your ability to “live” the Christian life – so you just quit and totally submit inwardly and outwardly to the flesh driven life.
Its funny how everyone was talking trash that pastor Paul Chappel wasn’t recognizing Jeremy Whitmans role at LBC and it was wrong on pastors part , but now that everyone knows the actual truth about what was really said towards Jeremy in regards to pastor and he is having a fund for his funeral and for his kids education ..everyone is still talking trash and looking down at lbc …. Hopefully nothing this tragic ever happens to any of you who are judging …..
It was all on av press no one made it up! So? Pastor chapell correct himself that’s a blessing…. But? No one made up anything it was on the newspaper thank you for judge us, but sorry u are wrong! Tim christoson and pastor chapell said it not us, now The Lord has spoken to their hearts and glad he is doing something about this Family and kids:)
What about Erik Ungerman who also was a faithful member and is the victim in this turmoil? why can’t Pastor Chappel come to the Ungerman’s aide. Wow, this is what gives pastors like this a bad name. The Church is supposed to be for the homeless,the needy, and the widows. and if Pastor Chappel wants to give biblical principles on this matter than I would pray that both families especially the victims family would get his support because they’re the ones that are in tremendous need and stop putting people on platforms because that’s where we as humans mess up at and get in trouble because we take our eyes off of Jesus Christ, and start focusing on man and the things of this world and that’s when we FALL DOWN. Jesus Christ is our Shepherd and any Pastor that’s a true Shepherd he will feed his sheep and guide them correctly. You show me in the bible where do the sheep take care of the Shepherd? you can’t find it because the Shepherd take care of the sheep. I believe one of your Sheep’s Pastor Chappel is in need of help and you need to aide that family as well. sign a real sister in Jesus Christ.
Thumbs up Quandra
Why the hate? Arrogance.
If this had happened to person affiliated with another church in this valley I don’t think that the outcry would be as harsh, there are several reasons for this. Paul Chappell has made it clear that LBC is the only bible believing church in this valley. He has declared that he does not “hold hands “with churches that do not preach the gospel, inferring that the churches in this valley are not truly Christian. The record will show that he does not show up for meetings with other pastors in this valley.
Paul Chappell is arrogant while pretending to be a caring person, he mocks churches where people lift hands in worship or sing and play what he considers rock music, he has also discussed the dress of other people talking about their cut-off jeans, etc…
With regards to this particular tragedy, I could have predicted the way it was handled. Tim Christosen was the canary in the coal mine, so to speak. Tim goes out and distances himself for Mr. Whitman, Paul waits to see the response, and after the hue and cry he is now able to write a glowing report about his beloved assistant. This is the usual way things are handled with the staff. Paul’s instructions are, or should I say have been “Insulate me, don’t Isolate me”
I could be wrong but if he is still man I know, he has dispatched his underlings to the Ungermans to offer comfort all the while cautioning them to keep things private for the cause of Christ and protection of their family, as they say he is as slick as snot.
Paul Chappell is masterful at manipulation, as you all can see by the glowing posts from current members. I have seen some of those members awaken to see what is truly going on, some of the same people that shunned me when I left have cried bitter tears of regret. Paul will never have peace of mind because there are too many secrets; he knows that at some point some of his loyalist will leave on some pretense of being called to another ministry, while others will spill the proverbial beans
I am thankful for a God that promises His grace is sufficient, for Pastor Chappell giving Biblical principles to help us grow closer to God during this time and leading a church to help out a hurting family, and for a church family that responds and rallies around the hurting families from this tragic situation. No matter what is said, no matter what someone’s opinion is on the matter, no matter what someone assumes is accurate; the truth is that this is a tragic situation, that God is good all of the time, and that these families need our love and prayers during this time.
I don’t believe how the church has turned it’s back on Erik Peter Ungerman, a loyal member to the congregation and they’re not trying to assist the Ungremans family with anything! Wow Lancaster Baptist Church needs to step up and pay for a erik Ungerman’s services. I will put this before The Lord Jesus Christ to cause conviction upon you and your congregation if their in fro the right reason. Ungremans need a lot of help and prayer.
You can donate on line for his funeral costs…and he likely had insurance both from work and personal life ins. Policy
Erik was not a regular attender of LBC. I am a member there and have already contributed to his funeral fund.
The survivors are all victims. It seems very complicated, everyone wants to pass judgement its not gangs, church,politics, race or which side of Lancaster u drive on it would be much easier to deal with. This is someone who had a mental break. You can’t make these families feel worse with your words but u might make them feel better by helping them or just leave them alone.
Yes, support his family but this man is a MURDERER who should not be shown love and support. If all you pro-lifers out there aren’t full of crap, you should outraged that he took another man’s life.
And by “this man” I obviously mean the shooter not Erik (RIP).
I can’t believe Pastor Chappall wants to put Jeremy Whitman’s life like he was such a godly man. People need to remember that wolfs are in Sheep’s clothing. Look at Judas Iscariot, he walked with God in human form for three years and he was only in it for what he can gather out of it. You see in the end judas committed suicide because he knew he had innocent blood on his hands. Judas was never saved and neither was this wolf in sheep,s clothing just around for the ride and what he can get.
Didn’t realize you were omniscient and can see what God sees in the heart and inner life of a person – Based on your judgment Moses, king David and the Apostle Paul were unsaved because they were murderers.
Your a theolgical pea brain
Get in God’s word and stop spouting spiritual nonsense
Yes, they were, BUT THEY REPENTED AND FINISHED WELL…. READ YOUR BIBLE PLEASE. THE SAME BENEDICTION THAT THIS PASTOR GAVE JEREMY, HE SHOULD HAVE GIVING IT TO ERIK AS WELL. REMEMBER, JEREMY WAS THE ASSAILANT, NOT ERIK. THE CHURCH IS SUPPOSED TO BE THERE FOR THE NEEDY, HUNGRY, HOMELESS, AND WIDOWS. God will not be mocked. And if this Pastor is caring on the way some of his past members say he is, then he has a lot to answer to God. Also you show me in the bible where you have to have a “Membership to belong in a Church”?. You can’t find it in the bible because it doesn’t exist. When the bible speaks of “The Body of Christ” God’s not talking about a physical building, God’s talking about our physical body being part of “The Body of Christ”. I’m so thankful for The Holy Spirit, for He will never ever misguide you or lead you astray. People wake up and read your bibles for yourselves and if you don’t understand you pray to our Heavenly Father and He The Holy Spirit, will give you WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING. FOR GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION.
Over 2000 babies (on average) in the USA were murdered yesterday “legally” and the day before and the day before that etc. and it will continue today and the next and the next until the law is changed…57 million and counting since 1973….the soul of America is stained with these murders…that is a cause for outrage…not that saved men (erik and jeremy) who knew Jesus are now with Him in heaven
How about stepping up and taking responsibility for one’s own actions, instead of taking the cop out attitude that no matter what you do, the Lord will forgive you and everyone will make nice and be best friends in the after life. Really? That is completely delusional.
Hey ‘Voiceofreason’….you really need to change your handle.
Erik’s own sister states they loved Jeremy like a brother and still do. You don’t know either of them, yet stand in judgment. Both families are grieving and your comments are ignorant.
If only LBC would show such compassion and understanding (vs judgement) of NOT church members.
Show how far they’ll go to understand absolutely anything “one of them” does.
Imagine if the victim had been the shooter, and the LBC shooter had been the victim. Would LBC be so understanding and supportive of the guy who shot their churchmember?
Yea, right.
Before you go crucifying people you apparently don’t know consider people and their feelings who actually did know him. He was a good guy a very good guy and was like a brother to me when I needed someone to go to he was there. People are people and Christians are just people as well they make bad decisions just like you people. He was a good godly man. I’m not excusing his actions, because this was a very senseless and bad act. The devil is very real and makes us do things we don’t want to do especially when were weak or out of God’s will. Again I’m not excusing what Jeremy did, but when you are out of the will of God you never know what you are capable of. We all don’t know the whole story we all have half of the story. I just can’t see him doing something like this unprovoked!!! Something had to have happened that this man did to Jeremy that we don’t know about. Maybe this man threatened to kill his family? Or something aweful like that and was too scared to go to the cops. Before speculating and saying something about someone you don’t know best to keep your comments to yourself
Speculating. And yet you have no problems speculating what the victim may have done to get the shooter to do what he did. You also speculated that Jeremy was out of the will of God. Why? Because he stopped working for Paul? Or was it when he quit going to the only church where he could be in “God’s will”?
or was it when he killed someone… that’s a no brainer. she isn’t speculating, she is trying to refute speculation. you cant argue ad-hominem for ad-hominem.
What type of provocation would make it ok to hunt him down and cowardly hunting the victim and did a drive by shooting. Please don’t try to justify, look at what he did, he’s a terrible father, husband etc., it’s amazing your defense of him, what would your opinions would be if it wasn’t one of your members
I’m positive if the roles were reversed the comments would be very different.
“….Christians are just people as well they make bad decisions just like YOU PEOPLE.”
Really. Says it all.
There are “Christians” (who apparently deserve sympathy and understanding no matter what, even if they kill someone in cold blood), and “you people” (who rarely/never deserve sympathy and understanding, in fact its probably their fault they got killed in cold blood by said Christian).
Amazing!!!! So Lancaster Baptist church is rallying around a killer. We have a MURDER Victim and a killer, yet as the cult known as Lancaster Baptist Church says they are ” rallying around” a known killer. What next? Maybe dress codes to attend church. Oh, thats right they do. I know The Lord worries about how everyone dressés when they come to worship. Oh, wrong again, Jésus only cares that you have faith in God, accept Jesus Christ as your savior and live à good life devoted to Him. Give from your heart as as Christ said in the New Testament and not the Old Testament of tithing, or giving 10% of everything you earn. Amazing that à church body would rally around the killer and not help the true victim, the man that was murdered. The victims family can’t even accord a funeral. Wow!!!! Imagine if à church body that side would actually help people that are in REAL news!!! After all, L.B.C. is probably hurting for money.
Really, it’s more to be a help, blessing and encouragement to the family. A wife and five precious, innocent children have to live with this. Let the church take care of this part of the process.
Support the family, sure. Those kids did nothing wrong, and will need support now more than ever, thanks to the actions of their father. However, the comments here and on the Pastor’s blog are actually praising Jeremy and talking about how good of a person he is, like the fact that he murdered his friend just didn’t happen. That’s sick.
Or maybe it’s the fact that the church doesn’t give much credence to a grown man murdering a grown man. The only time I ever see them getting riled is when it comes to the unborn. There is no justification for that thinking. None.
I hope that LBC can spare some change for the guy he shot. It’s kind of ironic that they’re setting up trust funds and memorial funds for a murderer, but the murdered guy’s family will probably have to stand on the side of the road and have a car wash. Maybe LBC will let them use their parking lot for the car wash. It’s the least they could do…..
STOP bickering about it. see the need take the lead. if it bothers you so bad then do something. ….stop babbling and do something. Talk is cheep…..get off your blessed assurance and do something otherwise stop bickering. look at the big picture. Two Moms and Dads lost sons…children lost their dad….and so on. Nobody knows the facts. Maybe he was thretoned by Erik and was defending himself. Maybe there was a 3rd person and its a double murder. We do not know and may never know. so lets just worry about those left behind and be there for them. Whats done is what is done and you can make a difference by being quiet and doing something good for those left behind. If you can not say anything nice DO NOT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.
That’s right! If you can’t say anything nice about a man that murdered another one, shut your mouth! I mean, instead let’s speculate that maybe it was Jeremy that was threatened by Erik when Jeremy followed Erik to a stoplight and shot him multiple times while he waited for the green light! Or maybe there was a third person! Yes, because no one actually saw Jeremy’s car pull up next to Erik’s and then speed away! It was a third person! It was a set up! Ignore everything else! Jeremy is a good kind man who is sitting at the right hand of Jesus as we speak!
*groan*
Sue, I can assure you Erik Peter Ungerman was never ever a threat to Jeremy. Jeremy had a darker side that only people close to him knew about. The reason this entire situation is so outraged is 1). a godly man MURDERED his MENTOR and FRIEND. 2). The Pastor chooses to take care of the Assailants entire funeral cost and put him on a spotless platform. 3). The Pastor will open up educational funds for the Assailant’s children’s, but Erik had only 1 biological daughter, what about her? I do realize that finally because of the outcry for the victims family, the Pastor did contribute some funds towards Erik’s funeral, but not for the entire cost as he did for Jeremy’s funeral and family. You see I thank God for The Holy Spirit, because He guides and directs us if we truly have Him residing within our souls. There’s no such a thing where you have to put your membership in a certain church in order to belong to the Body of Christ. Jesus Christ said, “Come as you are, come drink from the living water, cleansing from and releasing NEW LIFE, DRAW NEAR TO HIM AND HE WILL DRAW NEAR TO YOU, HE’S BEEN WAITING YOU SO COME, COME AS YOU ARE. I do believe that’s THE WORD of GOD. According to some of these EX-MEMBERS you have to be dressed a certain way and that’s not Scripture. Paul wrote in the bible “MY people parish for lack of knowledge”. Open the Word of God for yourself and read. Get into a bible believing, teaching, preaching Church. So Grateful that I am in a Church where we come as we are, we worship together corporately, we do not believe in memberships because it’s not biblical, we don’t believe in the sheep take care of the Shepherd, The Shepherd takes care of the sheep, we do not believe in First Ladies, because it’s not biblical i do believe man has put enough spin on his own doctrine and God will judge each and everyone that has added or taking away from His Word. The bible does allow us chances and after so long God will allow us to be turn over to a reprobate mind as Paul said in Romans. Consider the Jim Jones and David Kouresh tragedies. My heart does go out to Jeremy’s family because that’s a awful LOST. However, let’s keep it real we have no heaven or earth to put anyone in and we don’t know if Jeremy is in heaven and we don’t know if he’s in the holding tanks off hell, but what I do know is It’s impossible for Salvation to pass anyone up that’s truly seeking to be saved and forgiving. Once again, I’ll say Judas Iscariot, was one of the twelve Apostles, that walked with Jesus Christ, for three years, he even held the money bag, but the question is “WAS HE TRULY SAVED”?. After he sold Jesus Christ over thirty pieces of silver he had a opportunity to REPENT for his sins instead he continued in his sins and let Satan deceive him further to commit suicide and the bible says, “HE went to his place”. Just saying people lets keep it real.
they are rallying around… the family! there is no dress code there. I used to go, and was NEVER asked to wear this or that. Jesus DOES talk about tithing in the NT, along with Paul.
Lies and anger… not from Jesus.
Clearly, the devil is not happy about the goings-on at LBC (i.e., soulwinning) as he has gone to great lengths to orchestrate this tragic scenario in hopes of disgracing the church. Well, the joke’s on you, satan, because all this will redound to the glory of God. I just spent a couple of hours reading comments and am amazed at how the unbelievers and backsliders are coming out of the woodwork to defame the church. I do not live in the area but have attended LBC a couple of times due to knowing a couple former college students personally and also have heard at least a hundred of the livestream services. One would be hard-pressed to find a more humble and consecrated man of God than Pastor Chappell. These are the end times, folks. The devil’s time is short and he’s trying to make the most of it. Remember who the enemy is and put on your armor!
Are you FREAKING serious? Do you know how utterly [removed] you sound:
The devil made him do it because they devil is mad because our church is winning souls…
YOU DUMB, IGNORANT [removed]!!!!
Well said, wow is right!!!
Pastor Chappell was attacked for NOT identifying enough with Jeremy and now, he’s being attacked for identifying too much with him. He can’t win. That speaks volumes. For the record, there is no dress code for folks who want to attend services at LBC. There is a dress code for church workers, choir members, and volunteers (in the parking, bus, media and other ministries). I just donated to the victim’s funeral expenses fund and I suggest others channel their rage into something positive like this…
http://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/wpv3/erik-ungerman-memorial.
Don’t judge stop! Pastor must have his reason y? His not helping Erik no one knows but God! Now the both have to answer to The Lord! So? Bro whitman had his reasons it’s not right? But think about it we all have gotten so mad or upset sometime if he was a great best friend y? Would this happend? People we don’t know so continue to pray God will take care of it all we can do is continue to help with prayers!
The Pastor was supposed to do the same for Erik!!! Isn’t that what the Word of God says??? Please do not misrepresent The Word. The Pastor is bound at least supposed to be bound by The Scriptures to do the godly right thing and they both should have been dealt in a equal form because there’s no respectful person in God’s eyes. Man is who put people up on high platforms. Point to remember, Peter did walk on water as long as he kept his eyes on Jesus Christ, but he allowed his surroundings to distract him and when he took his eyes off of Jesus Christ that’s when he began to sink in the water, but Jesus was right there to catch him because he cried out to Jesus.
There is nothing LCB or Pastor can do that will be right in everyone’s eye’s. So Pastor do as The Lord Leads and we will back you.
They “unsaved” hated Christ and they will hate us even more. Prais The Lord….then you know tour doing right. Keep on Keeping on.
Interesting statement. I happen to be saved. I’ve been born again. Yet, what I have read from all the supposed born again Christians here, I am not convinced that any of you are. Of course the Church should be taking care of BOTH families. Equally. And not a one of you should be condoning the actions of the one against the other.
right. only you should be?? makes sense.
I do agree!!!
It’s funny how they have dress code for women (church workers, ministries …..) but not for Larry Chappell Wife (Pastor Chappell Daughter in law). I do not think is wrong to wear pants or Jean she looks amazing. Is the fact that; the standard should be for everyone beginning with them.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152059549874522&set=a.499291694521.272544.295104119521&type=1&theater
4357 W. Dixon Blvd.
Craig, I cannot begin to understand your level of hatred. I have no stake in this fight, I live thousands of miles away on the east coast. But it is entirely appropriate for this church to love and help the family of the man who committed the crime. He did it, not them. That church is well known as a solid, Biblical, traditional church. It is not a cult. It is obvious that you hate it, and them, but it is just sick that you are using this tragedy as an excuse to bash people who are hurting! I am a pastor, and if one of my members did this, I would be broken to bits for the people I loved who are now suffering as a result of the wrongs of another. Your hatred is blinding you. I do not know you, but I love you and will pray for you, and for ALL the victims of what has happened. Pastor Bo Wagner
God bless you, Bo Wagner. I’m a young Christian man who lives thousands of miles away as well, but I was once able to meet Jeremy Whitman, and this whole situation was a great shock to me. Jeremy was a really kind, outgoing, joyful man when I met him. When you get your eyes off of Jesus Christ, though, you’re hurtin’ fer certain.
I’m sorry Craig but I take that comment very personal I went to Lancaster Baptist Church and they don’t have a dress code at all only if you go to the college, but not to attend the church
Hi Sara, I am a former member and I respectfully disagree, yes the collage has a dress code but so does staff, school students and choir and sunday school leaders, it’s so big (Church) that if your not wearing your church clothing sometimes you feel “looked at funny” or judged by other members .
I am a Nurse & wherever I work there’s always a dress code. I am an LBC member & very proud about it. I remember my very first “Soulwinning’, I was wearing a flare jeans & a little bit shorter shirt where if I raise my hand, my tummy would be showing. After observing everyone, I realized, I was not properly dressed, then an Assistant’s Pastor’s wife came up to welcome me & seems very excited, I felt embarrassed that I apologetically explain that I didn’t know how to dress for the occasion & her reply was ” You are dressed just right, you want to be comfortable” Nobody from there ever told me how to dress for Services or any occasions there but over the years I come to realized I dress up for parties, job interviews , etc ,etc the way I want to be taken seriously & respectfully so why not in the house of GOD. For those of you who may never understand, it was truly the Holy Spirit who spoke to my heart & never a member, a LBC Staff or Pastor himself other than on the Pulpit with scriptures to back it up!!!
No dress code?. I’m a sports official and my supervisor received a call from the pastor asking I remove my Jewelry (wedding band) before the game took place. Of course he could have asked me…I still wouldn’t take it off and I walked…
…an that’s the scary part. you are trying correlate a safety measure in a sport activity on the church property to a church dress code!
And here in lies the genuine issue. People want there to something horrible about this church. And it doesn’t matter what they have to twist or how they have to lie for it to be there.
Way to go, LBC. Yeah, cover the expenses for the killer, and disregard the victim. Goes right along with most of the comments to this article.
They are covering the expenses for the FAMILY of this killer. He made the most selfish decision. Why bash the church for helping the family?
All I can say to all you critics out there saying nonsense about the church supporting the killers family is you are selfish fools. I live in Arizona and serve the Lord faithfully in my local church. I will pray ferventley for both families. They both are victims. I will also pray for the critics who have hard hearts understanding the big picture here. Jeremy’s church has nothing to do with the terrible decision HE made that Sunday night. Lancaster Baptist Church is devastated especially the staff who poured their love into him. People fall even Christians. And unfortunately this fall has taken down not only Jeremy’s family, the victims family but the church’s Pastor, brother Chappell, an amazing Godly man. I am a Christian and I have struggles and knowing the Devil is there to attack my weaknesses only shows me that I as a human could make a bad decision too. We don’t know what sparked Jeremy that dreadful Sunday night, whether it be deep bitterness, drugs, etc. All I can say is to all the critics out there is “A fool uttereth all his mind but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards” Proverbs 29:11
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Philippians 4:8
There is nothing wrong with supporting his family but I have seen MANY people saying nice things about the murderer. It’s disgusting.
If you knew the man you’d understand
And it’s disgusting to see so many people bashing the church for “rallying around a killer”. They have memories of the man. Really good memories. And they are devastated that this happened. They are remembering a man for who he was to them, not rallying around him and ignoring what he did.
Wasn’t the victim, Erik, also a member of this church? Where’s the memorials for him? Where’s the blog posts? Where’s the offers to pay for his funeral, or the college fund for his family? The reason you see anger here and elsewhere is because of that! You ARE rallying around the killer and ignoring the victim! I haven’t even seen one kind word about Erik, and indeed, I’ve seen “we don’t know the whole story about why Jeremy did it” instead, basically like you’re all ready to blame the victim, like there could be a good reason why this went down.
It’s not that people have a problem with the church paying for Jeremy’s funeral and setting up a education fund for his children. People who really believe in God also believe that Erik Ungerman the Victim should’ve been treated with the same compassion by the LBC / Pastor. Isn’t that how we as Christians Church’s supposed to respond. For the homeless, hungry, and widowed!! Erik also was a member there and I do believe God said, “NO RESPECT OF PERSON”. There’s nothing wrong with the Church wanting to support the Jeremy’s families financial funeral, but do the EXACT SAME THING FOR ERIK’s FAMILY TOO.
…. Is the church helping BOTH family`s ????? Or are they only helping the Whitman family ??? I`m a member and I`m sicken by what the church is doing.. And don`t get me started on their soulwinning thing.. Yea go out and bring people into the church… WHY… So they can tied and build so more building that they don`t need All to make the Pastor look good.. With this shooting you can see that they truely FAILED at helping people.. Erik you ARE and always have been a great guy.. God bless you and your family.. PLEASE post when the services are for Erik..I understand their not going to let antone know when the service is for jeremy..Good for them..
Hey “church goer” the word is “tithe.” Last time I was there, there was definitely a need for more buildings. Theyre maxing everything out there… probably because they’re, in your words, “failures.”
Please when making an accusation have receipts to verify this situation
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of christ. And no Wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angle of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
Matthew 23:23
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
Matthew 23:25
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
Matthew 23:27
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.
Matthew 23:29
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,
The highly religious people of the day in Christ time: Christ said a lot about them and none of it good.
I have heard these people talk and preach. They are against music even thought God loves music because he created an Angel that made music with his body. But the Baptist must have set god straight about that and what type of music is good and what is bad.
They are against every Church that is has a band or has services on Saturday or were men don’t wear suit or ties and the women wear long dresses.
Every child must go to an unaccredited Bible College and get deep in debt and work at a church. If they look for a better paying job and the church hears about it they are fired. Nothing like praying that a fellow Christian is blessed and they family is blessed! The preachers talk more about how great they are then about the word of God.
One more thing
Try to be a homeless person and come into the church you will be showed the door, actual footage to be posted.
…are a liar. It scares me to think that all of this happens… IN YOUR MIND!
What appears to be getting lost in all this is that there is a family out here in our Valley that has lost one of its members, a father, a brother, a son, to homicide. While I understand a church, and its members, rallying around a member and trying to make sense of an absolutely senseless thing, this was a crime, and its a crime that leaves behind real victims.
I also lost a brother to homicide, its devastating. Erik is THE VICTIM, his family has to find a way to survive this, and who exactly is rallying around them? They ALSO have a funeral to pay for, and a lifetime of questions that can never be answered because the person who took their loved one’s life is no longer here to be held accountable.
Erik Ungerman’s family deserves compassion. I can only imagine how they feel, seeing more sympathy for the person who committed a cold, planned murder then they see for the victim of this crime. It’s incredibly sad to watch.
Dearest Denise, FINALLY a voice of reason! I thought I was in the twilight zone from reading all these comments praising the murderer. It is inexplicable! I could never have stated that point better than you have. Thank you!!!!!!
I’ve been struggling with this for a few days. Because of my own personal history, its been a very hard thread to even watch, but the more I read, honestly, the more annoyed and saddened I became.
I cannot even imagine how one of Erik’s family members would feel reading this thread. The Christian and church bashing, the number of people glorifying the murderer, and that is exactly what Jeremy Whitman is, a murderer, who planned a cold, calculated, execution. He made the decision to take a life.
Erik Ungerman, that is the name we should all remember.
I think you are seeing so many posts defending the church, because of the amount of posts attempting to link the church and pastor.
I think you are seeing so many post about Jeremy (on a scale that I have NEVER seen) by both church and non church members, because until recent days, he had a genuine and powerful effect on 1000′s of people, their children, and their homes…that is undeniable. Even Erik’s family has been posting good things about Jeremy on social media and forums. BTW, thank you for the tissue!
Believe me, I am no fan of the church bashing going on here. From what I’ve heard, Erik Ungerman was also a devoted Christian, and I’m sure he wouldn’t appreciate it either.
What bothers me more though is the way this is being portrayed. As a Christian woman, I am always offended when I see bad behavior from Christians explained away as simply as “he fell away from Christ”. Sorry, no way. I know Atheists and pagans that are also horrified at the thought of the intentional taking of another life.
No one knows what led up to this, what we do know though belies the “nice guy” argument. We know that the victim of this crime was parked at a red light, and was ambushed by his killer. We may never know why, what was going on in his head, but he murdered a man, someone’s father lost his life. He also left his wife and children to deal with the aftermath.
I’ve dealt with the loss of a family member to murder, the hole it leaves in a family is incredibly tragic. It’s not a wound that ever really heals. I truly feel for the family of the victim, who not only lost a good man, but have to try to make sense of all of this.
It’s so sad.
Not sure what school you’re at, but you’re welcome for the Tissue. Operation Bless You is one of our most successful programs
You nailed it Denise. There is absolutely a place for supporting families who have lost husbands, sons, and fathers. I can also understand trying to put this horrible tragedy into some sort of perspective. What I CAN’T understand is trying to change the narrative to some sort of strange re-writing of the killer’s life. There is a tremendous amount of fact that is being left unsaid because it would pull back the façade of the “perfect church filled with nice people.” So much is being covered up to “protect the church.” Who protected Erik? I guess that they’ve got to build up Jeremy Whitman because if they don’t, they’ve got to admit that their practice of Christianity is majorly screwed up. Apparently Jeremy Whitman went off the reservation last year, and nobody there could seem to help him. Sad, sad, sad.
Why would the comments be coming from members, nonmembers, people from out-of-state, and even Erik’s family about the kind of guy Jeremy was. You want to tear down the church some how, but even in this travesty, you cant. It wasn’t the church; it wasn’t the churches fault. It is SICK that you are trying to use the devastating situation to… make yourself feel better, by tearing down a beacon of light in our community; LBC is doing great things here.
I hope that among those great things are taking care of a murdered man’s child. Doesn’t the Bible say something about taking care of widows and orphans in their distress? I would hope that this is a case where they do……unless to help the orphan of the murdered man would be construed as some sort of admission of guilt on the church’s part, so therefore the attorneys may recommend against it. We saw this mentality in spades when the child molestation cases started coming out of the Catholic Church. They wouldn’t come out with ANYTHING until they got subpoenaed. Once again, couldn’t let “the church” be hurt. That’s what turns non-believers off on organized religion. Be righteous until you have to have an accounting, then hire the attorneys.
they care for orphans and widows at that church… what are you doing to help others?
Denise, you avoided the second truth… You are a politician. ; )
Regarding your well written follow-up: Did the police announce an ambush? Erik’s girl said they were both drunk and got into a very heated fight. Sounds like a crime of passion PLUS an intoxicated mess, which justifies NOTHING. But it also does not support a “wolf in sheep clothing” scenario presented by so many. AND that’s the point. Again, I think you are seeing SO many responses by church, non church, out-of-state, and even ERIK’s FAMILY, because of the reaction of so many against…hate to say it… Christianity. (I just lost 60% of readers) NO ONE can justify Jeremy’s actions. But they were plainly based on a direction AWAY from his Christianity, that started so many months ago. What he was before that is what he was before that. I need not speak on the testimony of others (and, frankly, I hardly know him), but I can read. I hope SOMEONE can see, Christian or not, that movement away from Christ, a movement against the church, in it’s bitter end is a horrible one.
I am sorry to hear of own personal loss, as I am sorry for this current loss, not because I take responsibility for the actions (I don’t even attend the same church), but because I hurt with those that hurt.
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comment.
I’m a woman who runs a nonprofit organization, I am NOT a politician.
I also admitted from my first post that my reaction to this situation was through the eyes of someone who has also lost a brother to homicide. It will forever color my vision, and even all these years later, though we are all as healed as possible, it’s difficult.
So, drunk, drugged, or out of his mind, when he pulled up to a car that was waiting at a red light and opened fire, with no regard for the other cars on the road, or the people in the area, he ambushed and murdered his friend.
I’ve also clearly said that I understand the church’s position. I even understand the people who knew both men struggling to make sense of this, because it sure seems out of character. But, my initial post came about because in reading through the posts for the first 2 days, they were all about the church, or the man who decided to end 2 lives, and I just didn’t want the VICTIM of this crime to get lost in it. He has a name, and a family who loves him and who will be forever changed by his loss.
There are no politics here. It’s simply a tragedy. Because of my own history, I cannot be sympathetic to people who take lives, but I pray for his wife and children. There are a whole lot of victims in this case that are still here, the Ungerman family, and the wife and children the Jeremy Whitman left behind that have to deal with the horrible thing he did. It’s beyond sad.
Thank you Denise for being another voice of sanity here.
I imagine that Erik’s family, friends, coworkers, etc. are rallying around him and helping his family just as the family, friends, and (former) coworkers are rallying around Jeremy – the Jeremy they used to know for many, many years before these horrific events.
I think you are seeing so many posts defending the church, because of the amount of posts attempting to link the church and pastor.
I think you are seeing so many post about Jeremy (on a scale that I have NEVER seen) by both church and non church members, because until recent days, he had a genuine and powerful effect on 1000′s of people, their children, and their homes…that is undeniable. Even Erik’s family has been posting good things about Jeremy on social media and forums. BTW, thank you for the tissue!
so whitman, a personal assistant to chappell that has traveled all over the [removed]place with him and has been working with him for years suddenly ups and leaves. several months later another church member is murdered… BY WHITMAN, chappell’s old PERSONAL assistant.
…ok chappell, what kinda place u running and why did u have to do it like this?? whitman was a cool guy
LBC is a high-pressure work environment. But ALL the blame is on Jeremy. We all have struggles and hurts, but there is always an escape. There is always help. For whatever reason, Jeremy chose this way. Breaks my heart to say it. We were dorm mates in Bible College, a little bit more than acquaintances. We would cross paths periodically and enjoy wonderful fellowship. He WAS a wonderful person. He turned into a very bad person. Not because of Pastor Chappell (and I’m by no means a Chappell apologist). Something went terribly wrong in his heart.
yeah, i’ll just say “the church and Chappell arent wat you think they are”
and leave it at that
First let me say I am a Christian, I love Jesus Christ with my whole heart, but I am human and I make mistakes- (HUGE ONES because we are ALL Sinners) I met Jeremy Whitman when he was introduced to me as an assistant Youth Pastor , for my then teenager. I continued to know him as any parent of a teen at LBC. When I divorced my teen’s dad (for abuse of me, abuse I had hid to many) I didn’t go through the church for counseling (I went to outside Christian Counselor) this is when I encountered a very different Mr. Whitman , who on one morning when I went to go pick up my teen – he approached me in the parking lot telling me I needed to leave – I had no court order asking me to do so, and it was within my complete custody right to pick up my teen (who had called me). I don’t mean to speak ill of the deceased, but the man I met that day in the parking lot was not the same man I met inside the building. This doesn’t mean he lead a bad life, but in that instance he was misinformed and thought he was doing the right thing in calling on his walkie talky for back up . I do believe Mr. Whitman had a real heart for what he did …….but just saying we all can have two sides , I wish I could leave this on a positive note saying he was just wonderful…because honestly my teen -now young adult was very found of him….but this selfish act has hurt those he ministered too, and I hope they understand this was not the acts of a man in his right mind, nor is murder/suicide ever the answer…..my heart is genuinely hurting for his family and most especially his children and victim Erik’s Family (PLEASE PEOPLE DONT FORGET THAT THERE IS A VICTIM that didn’t shoot that gun, he was MURDERED at a stop light, someplace the murderer knew he would be at-that’s pre meditation folks) . Christians are not perfect people and this is rare….but I just hope and pray the young people who were under his (Whitman’s Sunday school class) understand this is not the way to handle your problems ….take it to Jesus first, talk about it to your family, your senior pastors and get help …..Remember the good – in the sinner and never forget that Churches are hospital’s for sinners (that’s you and me folks) so senior pastors please understand sometimes along with spiritual help some people need mental health care as well . written in love~ a Christ Following “former lbc member”
Thanks to all those on Facebook who have acknowledged the victim and thanks to his DirecTV co-workers who have established a memorial fund to help offset funeral costs. Let us get the word out to help and support all families in need.
https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/wpv3/erik-ungerman-memorial
Now here’s something that everyone should get behind. Support the victim of this horrific act, not the scumbag killer.
They aren’t supporting Mr Whitman, they are trying to support his family and friends…WHO SHOULDN’T BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS ACTIONS! They are all trying to come to grips with what happened…to have a man one way for so many years and then on a dime turn and become a totally different person. People are stunned. Dave you are a very JUDGEMENTAL person. But for the grace of God, anyone of us could commit the same act. This church shouldn’t be held responsible for what this man did. He acted on his own. We may never understand why. Dave you are ASSUMING! You have no idea what this church or the people of this church have done and not done. Why are you putting words in their mouth. I think you need to focus you’re energy right now on your own bitter and hateful self.
Wasn’t Erik also a member of LBC? Where’s his memorials? Where’s the comments speaking on what a good man he was? Where’s the blog post from the Pastor for him? How about paying for his funeral, or setting up a college fund for his family? Nope, all for the killer, none for the victim. THAT is what has me angry and “hateful” at you and the rest. Everyone seems to have forgotten that there is another death here, and this one did NOT stalk someone to a stop light (which shows premeditation, I might add, not a “crime of passion”) and shoot him multiple times in cold blood. RIP Erik.
… if your family or dear friend did the same .. would you trash them ?????? Its not because we attend lbc its because we truly knew the kind of person he was. To all of you that say Pastor was denying Jeremy whitmans role.. here you go http://www.paulchappell.com/2014/01/23/remembering-a-dear-friend-jeremy-whitman/
Maybe I wouldn’t directly trash them, as I’d be having many feelings of my own to sort out. I would certainly shut the hell up, though, and there’s no way I would just kiss the killer’s ass at the expense of the victim. The type of person he truly was was the type to track down and kill another person. You’re all acting completely deluded.
Well lbs member, apparently you did not REALLY know the kind of person he was. Neither did I…
As for the accusation that your pastor was denying Jeremy’s role, that was referring to his refusal to state that he was an asst pastor. There is much documentation that what Tim Christosen told the AV Press (that Jeremy was a clerical worker and not in a pastoral role) was absolutely not true. Jeremy was ordained at LBC and indeed had a pastoral role. They should tell the truth.
I don’t think Tim is lying. I truly think he believes this.
When you go to that College and are ordained in that church you are told that if you ever stop believing in the IFB views, they can and WILL strip you of your college degree and your pastoral accomplishments. So, when Tim says he was never a pastor…it is true. Because once they strip him of the title, all he has done is washed away and never existed.
I bet if you ask if he graduated from the college they would say he did not.
I am a former member of LBC and knew both Jeremy and Alicia since they were in college, long before they were married and had kids. Yes, it is hard to fathom the events of that deadly Sunday night and the events leading up to it, and why the church is supporting him while minimizing his role there, but what I don’t understand is the little support for Eric and his family, who also attended the church for awhile. I have read many comments here, both negative and positive about Jeremy, but very little about the victim. Where is the story about his life, his family, his friends and the inexcusable reason for his killing by someone who changed, for whatever reason (including many of those listed in your comments), from the person everyone else describes and whom I knew. I won’t make excuses for his actions, but I left the church for the same reasons as he and all of you have mentioned (not equal, insufficient, not important….all because I had a life outside of church with my family and friends and didn’t live in the church 24/7). While I was asked to come back by several, including pastoral staff, no one told me to come back to worship God…only to make business acquaintances, find a mate, donate money and offer my talents. Let us stop focusing on the church, the suspect and start focusing on the victim. Even though we want answers so that we may close this chapter, we may never know what events led up to this tragedy, and many of us have speculated. So let us pray and support all the families involved in this tragedy and hope that something positive comes out of it.
You know why he left?!?!? How? Why?
You could be a help to so many…
The preacher said on his blog “Jeremy was feeling ill and experiencing spiritual struggles.” Do with that what you will.
If the church knew that the pastor’s right hand man, his “buddy”, was struggling, why didn’t they try and help him, especially since his in-laws and the family are very powerful in the church?
the pastor made clear in the post that people from the church and ALL AROUND THE WORLD reached out to him. You claimed in your earlier post to know him well and know what was up… WHERE WERE YOU?!?!?!?! “Why didn’t [YOU] try and help him, especially since his in-laws and the family are very powerful in the church?”
I don’t go to church there, but have to wonder why there a few, who are SO bitter against the place?
Im sure they tried to reach out to him but their cell phones are all business lines through the church so once he quit he had to turn in his phone to the pastor. And from what ive heard the pastor told his staff to not reach out to jeremy 5 or 6 months back because they were taking care of it. I know people who still attend that church who didnt even know he was no longer attending church anymore until this article came out. Odd.
yep… thank God! cuz youre a gossip; repeating info you don’t even know is real!
Unless their staff members are liars its all facts.
The staff has been reaching out to you with this information? Or you’re just making this up? C’mon be honest?
Remember, church members are not suppose to talk to former members. In the 14 years I have been out of the church, I only have seen him once or twice. And when I did, we both talked and asked how each other and the families were doing. At that time, everything was fine with him and his family. No signs of troubles were shown. Maybe because his in-laws are so powerful that he had to keep his mouth shut so as to not reveal anything negative.
@gossip I like how you deleted your previous comment ;) but I will ignore the previous and respond to your new one. OPEN your eyes!!!! Pastor chappells right hand man allegedly killed a man then himself, and you expect people to not ask questions and wonder. Then youre crazy. And I for one am not a liar. I have no reason to make this up. I have many loved ones who still attend that church and I wish and hope things arent as shady as they are looking for their sake because I know theyre so blinded by this IFB lifestyle theyve been living for so long to open their eyes and leave.
I didn’t delete it; I don’t think that’s possible. A moderator must have. They either didn’t believe who I am, or don’t allow revealing those sorts of things. Nevertheless, the truth stands, and you’re a gossip. WHo di you talk to? Is it substantiated? I happen to know its not. Mr Chappell never did anything like that.
Yep, because to the crazy fundies, mental illness is just “spiritual struggling” what damaging bs.
are you sure he was mentally ill? what article does it say this in? … I missed it.
what is damaging bs?
I used to go there and I talk to folks from that church ALL the time. When I was there, no ever asked me not too. In fact I was encouraged to weekly visit, pray with, & support with in my means, some who were away due to difficulties (whether circumstantial or self imposed). You apparently left the church on different terms then I did. Bitter. Be free; if you didn’t agree, or whatever, with the church: LET GO! LET GO JoJo LET GO!!! : )
that was in response to JoJo’s comment ^^^
http://www.paulchappell.com/2014/01/23/remembering-a-dear-friend-jeremy-whitman/
Wow. So, they’re really starting a fund to “educate” children in the name of a MURDERER? Seriously, how can anyone say these people aren’t part of a cult? This is sick, just plain sick, and if anyone wants to try and defend what is said in this link, you’re just as sick.
The fund is for Jeremy’s children. The children have nothing to do with his acts. Their community is supporting them.
Well then, use the fund for BOTH families left behind because of the selfish, evil act of Jeremy. Sick.
How do you know that’s not the case? It’s too early to know ALL the details.
It’s a fund for the education of Jeremy Whitman’s own five children that have been left behind, not a scholarship fund in remembrance of a murderer. Please read more carefully. Sheesh.
To pay for his 5 kids education? Which education is that? Is Lancaster Baptist REALLY raising money to send his kids to….wait for it…..Lancaster Baptist Church? Here’s a thought. Why not educate his kids for free? Is this a case of the church needing to get paid? Regardless?
It goes towards the kids to educate them where ever they want to go .. not nessesarily LBC .. what if your dad brother or loved one did something like that.. would you have the same attitude??????? I highly doubt it.. don’t judge….
You misunderstand. Purposely? The question I’m asking is why doesn’t LBC just give the kids a free education? They aren’t doing anything for those children if they’re making people, through donations, pay for the kids to attend Lancaster Baptist Church.
“This fund can be used at any educational institution at the discretion of Alicia Whitman. If you would like to contribute to the children, you may send a gift through our church office, and the family will be notified by our office – See more at: http://www.paulchappell.com/2014/01/23/remembering-a-dear-friend-jeremy-whitman/#sthash.P1BCdbHC.dpufhrough
If he would have stated that they were paying in full for their education you would have criticized him for being willing to pay only if they go to LBS. He clearly stated it can be used at any institution. It also specifically states “If you would like to contribute to the children, you may send a gift…” This statement in no way implies that members HAVE to give! Nobody is making anyone do anything. When a family is hurting those who love them are hurting also. People want to reach out and do something for their friends. This will give people an opportunity to do something meaningful in the life of this family. I am sure that Erik’s friends and family are doing the same thing for his family.
I’ve known Jeremy since highschool. We were both in the Bro. Schmidt’s youth group whenever I’d visit my family way out in the desert for the summer. I can’t imagine him ever going down this road. I just saw him a bit over a year ago at a wedding. This is crazy. Wow. Just shocked by this news. My prayers go out to his family and the victim’s family at this difficult time.
I will have this to say, I went to Bible college (HAC) and have seen tons of Christians get out of church and go physcho crazy. Worse than those “in the world” to begin with or just as bad. I grew up in East L.A. in the ghetto so that thug life really didn’t have any allure, but if you are in church and thinking of getting out, don’t go crazy. Be normal.
And those that are put off of church because he was a leader in the church, don’t be so judgy. Anyone anytime can snap. If he was addicted to drugs and had been away for over a year, who knows what his frame of mind had been.
Again, very sad situation. Positive thoughts and prayers to all.
You just always hear about the one’s that go crazy. Maybe IFB made them crazy. Plenty of people like myself and many of my friends have left an IFB church and are normal, most of us are still actively involved in a church. We just want nothing to do with these kind of churches.
*ones
and HAC is FULL of CRAZIES!!!
http://www.paulchappell.com/2014/01/23/remembering-a-dear-friend-jeremy-whitman/
They are only approving the posts they want to go through. I posted this comment but they didn’t allow it to post:
It should have been comment #17 but you’ll see it is not there.
“Perhaps LBC can extend the same kindness and pay for Erik’s funeral costs and needs:”
https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/wpv3/erik-ungerman-memorial
Comment by Communty Member — January 23, 2014 @ 1:54 pm
- See more at: http://www.paulchappell.com/2014/01/23/remembering-a-dear-friend-jeremy-whitman/comment-page-1/#comment-62855
Perhaps its because…
“Feel free to use the comments section below to share your memories of Jeremy and to let his family know how much you appreciated him:”
Do you know whether LBC is helping the Ungerman Family or not?
Your pastor showed no compassion to the victim’s family you and he are both a disgrace to the IFB movement
Check out what Pastor Chappell said here http://www.paulchappell.com/2014/01/23/remembering-a-dear-friend-jeremy-whitman/
…for posting.
“The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked; who can know it?”–Jeremiah 17:9.
You can have a million posts about Jeremy’s motives by those who “knew” him and how he was seemingly such a good person, or so horribly evil. But only God knows his heart. Truth is, as hard as it is for us pious fundamental Baptist Christians to admit, we ALL possess the ability to murder. Hasn’t God said in the Bible that if you hate a brother, you have committed murder in your heart already? And yet many of us (me included at times) sit smugly in church Sunday after Sunday harboring all kinds of who knows what in our hearts….but quickly point fingers when someone like Jeremy follows through with action. Do my above comments about the depravity of mankind justify Jeremy’s actions? Absolutely not. but folks, let this be a sober reminder to all of us who profess faith in Christ to “Keep thy heart with ALL DILIGENCE, for out of it are the issues of life”!! (prov. 4:23)
To the surviving families….I don’t know you from Adam but my heart breaks and aches for you….only God can ease the pain of loss and separation and even that takes much time. God be with you throughout the coming months and years.
Well said, stranger.
HHHMMM? I WONDER HOW THIS SUNDAYS SERVICE WILL BE AT LBC, I WONDER IF ANY NEWS VANS WILL BE PRESENT?
Why don’t your come to this Sunday’s Service and see for yourself; and hear the Word of God preached.
Erik was murdered and the only thing anyone is talking about is the man that murdered him & the church he once went to? Have some respect for the victim too. Take your debate elsewhere. Make a forum or website for this. But don’t do it here, have some respect for the person that was murdered.
I have attended Lancaster Baptist several times, and I also know some of the members, and I also knew Jeremy personally. Because of these things, I am going to take the opportunity given by a horrible murder/suicide to make unsubstantiated accusations and malicious attacks on the church that Jeremy used to attend! This is the opportunity I have been waiting for. I finally get to vent my hatred towards Baptists! and particularly Lancaster Baptist! Oh wait…..that would make me a fool. Never mind.
Can anyone post links to LBC’s statements on this? Read somewhere else that the Mayor gave a statement regarding Jeremy’s drug problem. Links, anyone?
Yes! Feed me trash!!It makes me feel better about my righteous self! nom nom nom…
Well, as someone entrenched in the Independent Fundamental Baptist movement, I would be very disappointed if LBC is truly trying to minimize Jeremy’s position at the church. There are many of us “Fundies” who care about doing this properly.
As a former college dorm mate of Jeremy’s, I just so want to know what went wrong in his life.
Maybe you should ask LBC? A lil’ ‘Jerusalem Council’…
Maybe you can convince them to name a dorm after him?
Where did you read these other things? on a delicious blog during fundy devos?
Love your tone. Anti-fundy or anti-Christian? Just stuff I’ve read right here on this lil thread. Too much reading for you?
Neither and definitely, respectively. Just bothered by the implications against a church that could have helped him. Did you notice the time/day of the shooting? Regarding their relationship to him: things certainly change from 2008, 2010, 2012, and certainly in the last year. The have called him a colaborer, brother, and friend. The TRAGIC truth is he went a different way in recent time, and LBC doesn’t identify with that (though there was certainly a reaching out, despite the unmerited comments of others).
With that said, search on if you’d like, (im hurt and confused too) but I cant continue to be anchored to Jan 19th.
and I apologize for sarcasm. horribly reactionary on my part.
How nice that several trolls can post here anonymously spewing their anti-Christian filth. All persons reading, be aware that they troll from website to website trying to turn others away from Christ with their lies and garbage. If you notice, there is no scripture to back up their comments, with multiple misspellings and horrid grammar to boot. I have seen these same types of posts on other anti-fundamental baptist websites. This is a small group of people with nothing better to do. They like to make false molestation accusations to get attention and make the news. I know, because i knew them and their families before they turned away from Christianity. One was in my prayer group at BJU, and one was my former Pastor’s daughter. Anyway, don’t respond or pay attention to them. That’s what they want. I doubt most of the negative posters here even set foot in LBC.
Praying for the families and LBC during this difficult time. The God of peace will comfort and guide you.
Wow, Elaine, it is sad to see you calling people trolls and liars, and that we should just ignore them! How do you know they are lying? How does anybody on this thread know they are lying? No one on this site deserves to be disreguarded! Would you like to be disreguarded, if something bad happened to you and you tried to tell others about it? I would think not!
What scripture verse would you have them use to back up their charge of an unearned doctorate? Which verse is best to use when backing up a calm of molestation? I would really like know!
You ended by talking about prayer for the families. Am I to assume you are a Christian! If you are, you should act like one, and not judge others!
By the way, does my spelling and grammar (and choice of words) work for you, or will I be disreguarded too?
that’s… uh… “claim.” Apparently, “Linda,” “Elaine” knows a few of these people and their stories. Their responses have been removed by a moderator, but they definitely knew who she was. Half truths are whole lies.
I misspelled a word! Well, I guess that makes what I said null and void! We could have spelling, grammar and punctuation wars all day. Like how could you start a paragraph with a lower case letter, and an incomplete sentence, but having a literal “war of words” drag on seems petty!
It doesn’t matter who Elaine think she knows, it doesn’t matter what you know, and it doesn’t matter what the moderators know. Do you all have x-ray vision? Can you see through walls? Just because you may not have seen abuse, doesn’t mean it isn’t there, and just because the moderators may have removed the posts about it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen; I just means they removed the posts that accused some people of it.
They removed posts identifying “Elaine.” …and you may spell or misspell things however you’d like. : )
My children and I were only feet away from the victims( Erick)car that horrific night of the shooting. As we were going to turn on to Ave K from 20th (arco) we witness how a cold blooded being could pull up and open fire multiple times to the car next to him while both stopped on a red light. My children and I were blessed not to be hit with a bullet but unfortunately witness the devil in disguise that night. Am not from Lancaster nor knew either of them. May Eric’s soul rest in peace, my deepest condolences to both families loved ones.
How awful for you and your children, I am so sorry you had to witness that. Praying for all of you , as that is so traumatic . Mr. Whitman (a for the most part in public had always seemed very caring and good) But I don’t understand this most selfish and destructive act , on both his victim and witness that saw and anybody that knew both of those men…..this is selfish on so many levels to all even the innocent by Eyewitness or the fellow church attendee or citizen. It is not God’s fault these actions are of one man only and selfish and cowardly they were indeed. Praying for the families and a community who is stunned and mourning.
Paul Chappell always said if his church isn’t honoring the Lord anymore then may He burn it to the ground. Well I think of most of us are just waiting for that day. They turn their backs on him now. Now they are getting bad publicity and thats all they care about. Cant be associated with a killer, never mind all the good he has done. If you weren’t in that church then you can’t possibly understand fully what it feels like. His WHOLE family and life and in laws were so rooted in that church. It was their life, and to have the strength to leave that and to have everyone you know shun you and FAKELY try to “help” you…he didn’t need help just because he had a different opinion, all that can bring on a depression like no other. I can only imagine how he felt. And they had their claws too deep in him that even when trying to get out of it, he still couldn’t. I don’t know exactly what caused this, but I do know that that church is NOT honoring God, and Jeremy was the most genuine man, poured his life and soul into that church and he deserves to be remembered, honored and respected by everyone at that church. They should have a service for him but of course they wont.
If Jeremy left the church on his own accord, you can’t expect them to chase him down. It was his decision. They probably didn’t know he was a tortured man. He may have been a nice guy, but that night he wasn’t. All you can do now is pray the Jesus will show him mercy.
I don’t need to pray he will show him mercy, he already has.
What’s wrong with you…he murdered another human being in cold blood. No mercy for that. If you don’t ‘get’ that, then there is definitely a lot wrong with that cult church you belong to. Keep drinking the koolaid.
I have to agree with you sickofit. I man is dead, a brother, a son and a friend yet the pastor and his minions praise the killer. “Thou shalt not kill”. I wonder if those at the compound have heard of it. What drove this man to murder him in cold blood with little or no regard for anyone else in the area is beyond any of else, but it happened and the compound honors the killer. Go figure.
Sickofit… You are all over this!!! I pray that none of your loved ones ever snap like Jeremy did because someone like you will undoubtedly be insensitive to you. I don’t think anyone on this blog is condoning what Jeremy did. Is was a horrific act. But his wife and kids are victims too. There are people mourning the loss of somebody they loved wether he was good man or not. Have a heart!
About 45 minutes ago, I posted on here about Jeremy having plans on writing a book to expose the lies and corruption at LBC. Stating that the potential loss of all that money and power would be something one might not want to give up. Strangely, that post vanished. Deleted from the page. Who has the authority to do that? And under whose guidance? Rex? Is this a conspiracy theory….sure. You can call it that if you like. But there are too many unanswered questions…..they were best friends. And noone I know saw any signs that he was depressed or suicidal….
Interesting theory. Sadly that’s all it will be if no evidence of such gets posted. I do know of a staff member who left the church and was pressured to sign a non-disclosure agreement under threat of lawsuit upon leaving. What kind of church needs that? One with stuff to hide.
Somebody is watching and anon please give sources!!!
Same thing happened to a friend. I believe it’s the system getting overloaded with comments and can’t process them fast enough, OR, the Times little gremlins not liking certain posts. :)
From dedication on page 3 of book by Paul Chappell:
“Jeremy Whitman, thank you for unreservedly and joyfully investing yourself in assisting me and organizing the many details of a growing ministry. Thank you for your servant’s heart and excellent spirit.”
http://www.paulchappell.com/wp-content/uploads/Stewarding-Life-Sample-Inside.pdf
If you people on here know of pedophilia going on anywhere, you should report it to the authorities. Putting your comments on here is not believable if you can’t back them up.
You can always contact me if you have allegations. I have contacts that can help get investigations started. If not me, then contact the Survivors’ Network at 1-877-762-7432 or the good people at Bishop Accountability.org (the help anyone with abuse allegations) or, The FBI crimes against children. It only takes one call or email to get the ball rolling. If you know of abuse, do the right thing.
As our assistant pastor, Brother Jeremy Whitman, helped me this morning, we were able to encourage God’s people through teaching and through a video presentation about West Coast Baptist College. – See more at: http://www.paulchappell.com/tag/striving-together/page/10/#sthash.3qvlgwcD.NfdMadfz.dpuf
Riddle me this then….where did the original post go then…..it’s not here anymore.
This is so Sad!
I am completely shocked and confused about this news. I was a member of Lancaster Baptist Church for over 12 years and I taught at Lancaster Baptist School for over 10 of those years. I served alongside Jeremy and Alicia in several ministries at LBC and they were both teachers and mentors to my own children. To those of you who didn’t know Jeremy, think about the one person that you know who has the most sincere heart, the best sense of humor and is tolerant of everyone. That was Jeremy Whitman to me. He wore his heart on his sleeve and said exactly what he felt even if it didn’t agree with the popular consensus. If I had to describe him in one word, that word would be genuine. He never tried to appear to be perfect, unlike some of his pastoral counterparts. He poured his life into that church and ministry for 15 years.
I have to say that I have no idea why this happened! I can say that I know from first hand experience that mental illness is a real disease. I have heard from the LBC pulpit many times that if you need to take medication for certain psychological symptoms, your spiritual life is lacking somewhere. I have seen people who really need medication for depression, bipolar, ADHD, and other psychological disorders spiral into downward destruction because they believe it’s wrong to take drugs! Anyone, (whether you’re a gang member from the bad part of town, or a well-respected youth pastor) who can take the life of another human being and/or take their own life has some serious psychological issues that need to be addressed and treated! No one is exempt from the possibility of having a serious mental illness.
I have not attended Lancaster Baptist Church for sometime now, in fact I don’t even live in the state of California any longer, but I do have friends and family who still attend church there. I did not leave the church on bad terms necessarily, as far as the general congregation knew, but there were some issues that a small handful of staff knew about. (BTW, just to set the record straight, I was not the teacher who was molesting kids, nor do I have any knowledge of any one who did.)
I was visiting California almost a year ago and I attended a church service there. Now granted, I am not the LBC cookie-cutter that I used to be, but I do attend church and I’m very active in church ministry in my home town. Most of the staff that I worked alongside for so many years, knew very well, and considered my dearest friends greeted me as if I was a distant acquaintance. They were very formal, and chilly, but polite. (In his defense, Paul Chappell was not there that Sunday.) Jeremy, on the other hand, was genuinely happy to see me and we visited, reminisced, and laughed for well over half an hour while our sons who were friends and former classmates caught up. He told me at that time, as of recently, he was no longer on staff. I didn’t ask why and it was almost implied by his grin that he knew I understood.
Since receiving this news there have been a million scenarios running through my head. Was he trying to cover something up, did LBC hire a hit man to kill both men and make it appear to be a murder/suicide because they knew something, was Mr. Ungerman having an affair with Alicia, or, even more horrific in the eyes of LBCers, with Jeremy? (Yep, I went there! I apologize for any offense taken! :/) Then as I was reading the comments on this article, I realized something. None of the people commenting here know the real story. Maybe there is somebody who does know the real story. I sure as heck don’t know the real story! I do know that God knows the real story. Although we will probably never know the real story this side of heaven, I pray that the real story will be revealed and justice will be served.
In the meantime, I will just remember that we all have to answer to God for our own choices. Every man and woman, Billy Graham, the gangster on the eastside of Lancaster, Paul Chappell, Al Capone, Jeremy Whitman, Erik Ungerman, and you and me! We will all stand before God someday and although Jeremy is a murderer in the eyes of man, God sees Him through the blood that Jesus shed. Jeremy Whitman was a man of God who served God and brought many people to God. That was very evident by the fruits of his labor. I truly believe that God will say to Jeremy Whitman, “Well done, thou good and faithful servant”. It is the same blood that allowed God to forgive Jeremy, the same blood that saved my sorry, sinful butt, and the same blood that is available to all who will receive him!
I did not have the privilege of knowing Erik Ungerman but my heart and prayers go out to his family just it goes out to the Whitman family.
In the eye-opening light that this terrible loss has cast, let’s all remember that life is as a vapor. Let’s love one another while we are on this earth.
This was awesome thank you
Never in my life have I read such insanity as is being posted here.
RIP Erik Ungerman,you are the only victim of this story,Jeremy Whitman was a murdering coward who could not face the consequences of his actions. SMFH.
Iagree 100% with ya sickntired! I feel bad reading all of these comments, people I understand at one point jeremy may have been a good person, but you are all making excuses for his actions that night! Yes he may have had the church do that to him, but many people have and that doesnt make it ok to go kill someone..how about paying respect to erik, the murder victim! Sorry you all think this crime is ok because he had troubles…r.i.p to all involved..uowever this started could of been resolved differently, instead 2 fathers are gone and 2 families are grieving and planning a funeral. Very selfish action…
I too have thought some of the very things that you so candidly expressed. I have not attended that church in years but grew up there and I know that the reach of a church that size is far and wide. There is no telling what might have happened. I have gone through so many scenarios in my mind of what might have caused something like this and I can’t help but think that the secrets of the church finally became to much to bear. I am grateful for the bad experience that I had at LBC because now I truly appreciate the transparent church that I now attend where the people are REAL, and nothing is too shameful to be spoken of. In disbelief at this whole situation I lift both of these families up in prayer.
Shame! On Tim CHristoson and Pastor Paul Chapell this is so sad:(
In my eyes Bro. Jeremy Whitman will always be remembered for his legacy…not for his travesty. He will truly be missed. :,(
Is something being added to the water supply out there at LBC? WTH is wrong with you all? He stalked and shot to death a person with no consideration for the safety of others around him.That car careening across ave K could have very well killed someone else, not to mention a young girl without her Dad and family and friends without their loved one.
I swear you all are worse than Scientologists.Cult much?
A comment from a family friend when I re-posted this story… Terra ******** When I was 9 the church bus backed into my mother (one whom already suffers from MS) slowly but enough to knock her on her ass, bruise her back side and sprain her wrist. The whole bus full of teens and tweens saw it happen and try to speak up but were shh’d and the driver and Co captain denied it happening. . Several of the kids who tried to come forward were shinned and thrown out of the church!
15 hours ago · Unlike · 1
Sorry to hear of this murder and of course the sadness of the families. What good may come out of this is some sort of Look-See into the LBC. I have family that attended few years back and left after a period of time due to many of the statements here. I am a Christian and it started out like a good solid Church, When you see the real church you go with it or wake up and move on. The members will defend the Church to the end. You are talking to people that need to be told how to live,Who to be around,What to wear etc. If you doubt this, go on in, it takes about a month then you will see pending your income or race or living area who you will fit in with. It is like life itself at times, a lot are middle or above income whites, and talk trash about the lesser members or the Ghetto members. This is true. Illegal babysitting business is a common thread among the women, which i find funny yet dishonest and I have to work and pay taxes but nothing like cheating the system. Rental homes from the church being used to shuffle people,a true Class system within the Church itself with uppers making fun of lowers(god like huh) Maybe the supporters should look in the mirror and really see what stares back. I never saw molestors but what I did see was mind control, I did see the Pastor living far above the members and I did see the business end of this. We all have a God to answer too, The Church makes statements against others and often. if you are not in the mix you are put out to pasture.The degrading of women and their rights is disgusting. being told in basic terms obay your husband no matter? Come on. I saw women complain of abuse and it was turned around on what THEY did wrong why did you not obay your husband etc…way off the mark of a true Baptist Church. I too suggest the doors be opened books opened and let a major media look into this. i have left the area but from what I read and still hear about nothing has changed. You all need to wake up. This is NOT what a Christian is about. Shame on you.
Well said, and well spoken Amen!!!
THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!!
Well, I see you, too, are out of your mind…serioulsy? This actually came from your brain??? ……… “Jeremy Whitman was a man of God who served God and brought many people to God. That was very evident by the fruits of his labor. I truly believe that God will say to Jeremy Whitman, “Well done, thou good and faithful servant”. It is the same blood that allowed God to forgive Jeremy, the same blood that saved my sorry, sinful butt, and the same blood that is available to all who will receive him!” I don’t think so. And you have no cred if you can’t print your name after all that you have said. Again, another useless diatribe from a conflicted soul. Your boy Jeremy cold-bloodely stalked and murdered another human being…who was his dear friend, to boot. I don’t see
forgiveness’ being granted for doing the unthinkable. Ever.
“Cred?” I’m sure you’re afraid of being a victim of a hate crime as I would be, naming yourself “sickofit”
Sickofit… You are all over this!!! I pray that none of your loved ones ever snap like Jeremy did because someone like you will undoubtedly be insensitive to you. I don’t think anyone on this blog is condoning what Jeremy did. Is was a horrific act. But his wife and kids are victims too. There are people mourning the loss of somebody they loved wether he was good man or not. Have a heart!
“Since receiving this news there have been a million scenarios running through my head. Was he trying to cover something up, did LBC hire a hit man to kill both men and make it appear to be a murder/suicide because they knew something…”
I attended for way too many years, and I have to say the same thought briefly crossed my mind. How sad that we considered that an actual possibility. Yeah, that is some church alright…
I remember Jeremy fondly. I will mourn him.
“Brother” Jeremy Whitman gave the invocation at the Lancaster council meeting in 2008. Rex introduced him as “Pastor Jeremy Whitman of Lancaster Baptist Church,” but he’s just a clerk right? Yeah, oookaaaay. Too bad the video is online. Play it to 1:20 to see Pastor Jeremy Whitman opening the city council meeting in prayer.
http://lancaster.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=189
I agree with you! What he did was wrong, there is no doubt about that but shuning him and saying he was a simple clerk is not right!!
And for the people that say…homosexuality could have been the cause and he touched a child..blah blah blah then you know what? He should of gone to jail and if this is true and wasn’t reported by the church or the wife then again….that’s wrong.
Sorry for the loss and to both families they did not need any of this for sure. However it was a Murder, no matter what is said. The Church issue is being brought up because as you all can see it is and has been a long time hot topic. The Pastor is seen in very pricy clothes and his family in the same yet the members dress like they are in need and the woman are one notch back in time. It is sad. Good people with good reasons being told how to live and dress by someone so far removed from the way the masses live. That is the truth. Rules of not talking to others avoid all that leave on and on are real. Read these letters. Where there is smoke there is fire. The major media should get involved and see what is really going on here. Common statements of the “cult” or “Compound” are city wide. I grew up Baptist. I have never seen any Church take hold of folks like this. Very sad.
Well said!
Paul Chappell has no control about how much money his church members make nor about how expensive there clothes are. He makes no more $ than an average CEO of a company the size of Lancaster Baptist Church.
Although I do not agree with everything that goes on at Lancaster Baptist Church, I will say that when my husband and I were young parents struggling financially pastor Chapel noticed my husband’s shoe had a hole in the bottom of it when he was kneeling to pray and he personally gave my husband a $100 gift certificate to buy a new pair of dress shoes. On another occasion when I was pregnant and had very few maternity clothes, He gave me a $200 gift certificate to buy new clothes. I have actually been shopping w Terrie Chappell… She shops at thrift stores!!! Gasp!!! Your comment is very broad and uneducated. There are people in all kinds of walks of life that attend Lancaster Baptist Church. For you to say all the church members dress like they are in need makes you sound ignorant. As for the one notch back in time comment, the women at Lancaster Baptist Church choose to dress modestly. Just because they don’t show boobs and legs doesn’t mean they are poor.
And I don’t think the way people dress at Lancaster Baptist Church has anything to do with a murder and a suicide
funny re read your statement, You were poor and a easy target, $100..lol, you should see him drop a wad at the Mall…lol maybe a write off…One thing your right agout yes this should be about a Murder. the murder is done..maybe look into what kind of mind or lack of feeds off this cult.Unreal. Drone.
What have you done to help someone in need? Have you helped a homeless person not be homeless by providing everything they needed not to be homeless. That may sound confusing there, but I hope you realize that people have budgets and you can’t expect more from anyone being charitable. Everyone should be thankful with any help they receive.
“He makes no more $ than an average CEO of a company the size of Lancaster Baptist Church.” Really? A CEO salary of a company with 10,000 employees? (A claim made by a LBC representative at the recent AVAQMD meeting for the Palmdale power plant) WOW churching is paying the big bucks in the AV. Wonder who makes more? Chappell or Hearns? No vows of poverty here.
Almost as ironic as Rex’s bill boards claiming a “$1 billion” made on lawsuits on one side, and a “Happiness is serving others” quote on the other. Out of the goodness of their hearts and for the love of their God? What a racket!
“If you want to get rich, you start a religion.” L. Ron Hubbard
Yes, yes, yes! That is it!!! Anybody wearing nice clothes must be a bad person and a phony!!! It is nice to finally have the truth from someone as amazing as you. NOT!!!
I think what was being said is the man is detached from his group. It is the truth he sits above everyone and it is odd with hiring bodyguards living in a estate etc. that others and least in my area live in lesser conditions, I understand what is said and no this should be about a murder but this church has a very strange reputation in this town and people that have left have a common thread. I wish you all the best. Something however should be investigated. By the way I live near the Pastor and he is not living like any other Pastor I have ever seen. Truth will come out.
Well said.
Just watched the above posted video link. Having been around people with drug addictions Mr. Whitman appears to be someone who was either struggling with drugs or had recently been struggling with drugs, and that is from 2008. Not making any inferences here but if that was the case whether anyone knew it or not(yes addiction can be concealed very well, as to not even having your spouse know it.) maybe he spiraled out of control from drugs and committed this terrible act in a drug haze and when he came to and realized what happened, he then took his own life. Just another thought as to what may have happened.
Sunday school teachers talk about don’t call the church or complain or Gossip maybe Erik needet someone to talk to and could about all this just by saying one word and Sunday school bible teachers tell us is a sin to complain this two men are dead and all I’m going to do is leave my Sunday class and just pray about it to The Lord! Because this is very confusing and trauma for me and my Family! I hope God forgives them! rip to bro whitman and Erik I hope Paul Chapell talks to everyone of their staff and pray with them about helping those who maybe are going threw whatever this two were going threw! In Jesus name I pray!
I was sitting in my Sunday school class and this lady was so mad she said “I’m sick of lady’s comeing in here just eating the class room food she said you walk in here and don’t talk to anyone and make yourself comfy I had a lost in the family sometimes your going threw so much that u want to not talk or feel sick but u still make it to class and service and pray about it maybe I don’t want anyone to know what I’m going threw so I want my space just don’t understand this bible teachers get a degree and then teach! Praying for this brothers that God will forgive them! In Jesus name I pray.
We Luv u pastor but I’m praying you see that all this is trauma to the church family God spoke to me about all this sometimes family dosent have enought money to give to your church or help build this big buildings you want a lot from us. Seriously some people can’t afford like everyone else and it’s sad I leave the church sad because I don’t have a lot to give on offerings whatever this yep man was going threw was seriously and pastor was close to this man I hope he consentrates more on his church family and not money! Don’t ignore Gods message here! I pray for all in this church and the family of this two men! Amen.
Thank you for your sincere comment. Something to think about.
…..Because this is very confusing and trauma for me and my Family! I hope God forgives them!…… News flash, Bible Teachers @ LBC… I realize it’s tough to wrap the mind around an ultimate and heinous act of hatred, but this isn’t about you or your family. This is about a cold blooded murder committed by Jeremy upon a person who was supposed to be his friend. There is nothing to forgive Erik for.
Jeremy was an acquaintance of mine. We talked only on a few occasions but he always had a smile for me (and everyone he saw at church) and I considered him a brother in Christ and therefore, a friend. I also saw a lot of the work he did for the youth ministry of the church. He seemed to be full of the Holy Spirit. He disappeared from church about six months ago and resigned his staff position at Lancaster Baptist Church. LBC is in no way to blame for this tragedy nor is it fair for all of these spurious accusations about Pastor Chappell (and the staff there) to be thrown around simply because Jeremy used to work there. I know that many of you hate God, Jesus and Christianity in general, but I would simply as for some tolerance and compassion during this difficult time. The devil tries to pull good men away from the Lord. Clearly, Jeremy got pulled away. He leaves behind an amazing wife and some very wonderful children. I for one will be praying for the family of the victim and the Whitman family. I will leave the judgment to God Himself and I will stand by my pastor, whom I know to be one of the greatest men I’ve ever had the pleasure of calling a friend.
If you think what people are saying about Paul Chappell aren’t true, do some research. He has made over $250,000 a year since 2000. These are not rumors. They are fact.
And speaking of facts, trying to pass Alicia off as an “amazing wife” is simply not true. Does it suck that her estranged husband committed suicide? Totally. Does that mean she should be painted as some awesome person? No. She’s actually not very nice at all. And he left her months ago.
Boy, you seem so very nice yourself.
Why shouldn’t he earn that much money if he did & maybe he does??? He has a Doctorate & he works almost 7 days a week especially on Sundays. When he was called to Pastor LBC, he & his family lived in a cramped apt & almost no salary, the church is big now but you’re saying he should stay small???? He is by no means a perfect man & he admits it himself!!! Maybe it’s hard to believe but the GOD we serve is capable of providing all the riches in the world & then some.
He does NOT have a doctorate. His doctorate is honorary, given by a pastor friend. In the IFB these are passed out like candy. It is completely dishonest to actually try to pass yourself off as being a doctor of anything with just an honorary. FAKE!
Interestingly, he received that honorary doctorate from a perv pastor in Florida (Bob Gray, Trinity Baptist) who spent his entire pastoral career (40+ years) molesting many children. He died awaiting trial but did confess to some of the abuse. Why brag about such a gift by using the title?
No Doctorate? He didn’t go to Louisiana Baptist Seminary?? Are you sure??
You seem to know him pretty well. I don’t think you’re an outsider, but an insider who probably went another direction. Lying about your former pastor on a public forum gives me a good idea of which direction.
Not a lie at all.
The doctorate is from Trinity Baptist.
The “masters” from unaccredited Louisiana Baptist University is pretty lame too, IMHO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Baptist_University
Check the WCBC site for yourself under the pastor’s bio…The Trinity “doctorate” is just an honorary one. Then be sure to google “Bob Gray Trinity Baptist Church Jacksonville FL” to learn more about the low-life pastor he received it from.
Not very nice of you to call me a liar without even bothering to look up your own pastor’s info.
Honorary or not, it was given to him because of his accomplishments!!! Do you have any???? I enjoy sweet grapes than SOUR GRAPES, LOL
That was my point- that you know a lot about him- you’re obviously a former member who has another direction, and that dishonesty in the post on this forum are evidence of that. To be clear, (another dishonesty of yours) I DO NOT GO TO THAT CHURCH.
When did worshiping Jesus become something about how much money a pastor makes? Why does a pastor make what a CEO makes? Was Jesus about wealth or helping those in need. When one makes $250K a year, whose needs are being helped and how is this Christ-like?
umm… are you a Christian? Are you throwing a double standard? How is being a critical, lurking, troll blogger human-like? “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” T. Roosevelt
No – I am an atheist. I blog about Christian hypocrites and I have every right to ask the questions I ask. The problem is, the faithful don’t like to think about the questions, or answer them. Prosperity theology… not very Christ-like. You don’t need to be a Christian to recognize abuse.
I know you are and that’s my point- you don’t even believe in Christ… but he is the basis of your argument. Doesn’t make sense. Why don’t you blog about how there no Santa?!?!
Jenni,
It’s very likely that Pastor C puts half or more of his paycheck back into the offering plate. I know nothing about the wife or marital situation but I do know that the devil is busy trying to break up as many Christian marriages as possible.
Jeff, I don’t think anyone is casting judgment on LBC or the Pastor. I believe that the chips have all fallen where they fell. Jeremy obviously had some darker things going on with him in his life and apparently the Pastor was aware of these issues and I personally can’t understand why come the LBC and Pastor didn’t truly and honestly try to reach out to their brother in Christ. I also believe that many people on this blog is in disbelief of how the Pastor has operated in the aftermath of this awful crime. Both men were “MEMBERS” and I do believe as the Pastor has chosen to take care of all the funeral arraignments of Jeremy’s funeral and burial, the same compassion should have been shown to the victims family Erik Peter Ungerman. I believe that as the Pastor has opened up a educational fund for Jeremy’s children, the same should be offered for Erik Ungerman’s only child. God will deal with Paul Chappell in due season about how he deals with the sheep and God’s Word. Remember, this there’s no where in the bible where the sheep take care of the shepherd. The Shepherd takes care of the sheep. Ultimately, Jesus Christ was and is the Great Shepherd and he gave us a ultimate example on how to lead and Paul Chappell is falling real short of this. Signed a real sister in Jesus Christ.
Today’s AV paper states….A “clerical, office role” Really mister Chappell? Are you of all people going to turn your back on this man? He may have done wrong and no one should ever kill in the name of grief or revenge but It is hard to swallow the fact that you blatantly lied to the press and people all around you! I was at that church for 10 years and saw what Jeremy, a man of God, first hand! He changed so many young people’s life and was always there to help, no matter what. If you knew Jeremy and if you look at the comment by “letlow” you would find a link that will take you to a service that was held by this so called clerk!! He was a youth paster and gave 15+ years to the church! He was also Chappell’s right hand man and did so much for him. And yet the pastor acts like he only attended the church for a short time! A man have his all to you and you turn your back on him. I know what he did was wrong but he was still a Christian and you should take him in as one of your own…Oh! wait! you don’t affiliate yourselves with a murderer even though he put his life into your church. What’s sad is that you tell people exactly what you want them to hear and some people will believe your lies but others know the truth and are in disbelief that you would shun anyone, sinner or not. God never turns his back on his children so what gives you the right? For you people that still go there and knew Jeremy and that will comment to this and say, “OH, he would never do that and he loved Jeremy”. I say to get a copy of the AV paper and look for yourselves; also check out the link I mentioned before you open your mouth, with that being said…15+ years of his life put into that church and it all goes down the drain because of one horrific mistake. As I said before, “God never turns his back on his children.” You Sir, Mr. Chappell, will have some explaining to do if someone has the confidence and dignity to stand up and ask why you said he was a clerk!! It brought tears to my eyes and many others that you would do such a thing, if you don’t believe me…those people that go there go check Facebook…We Christians are surprised that you would reject one of us. If its so easy to reject a man who did so much for you, I can’t even imagine what you would say about a normal, plain, church goer. Shame on you!
http://lbc-downloads.com/slc/2010/audio/15-capturing-gods-vision-for-your-life.mp3
You so call..defenders…let the comments fly….
There is no link to him holding a service- he taught a class to jr high students four years ago.
You, sir, are a slandering LIAR.
I was at that church for eight years. He worked for pastor doing clerical work. Setting appointments, flights, meetings, etc..
I just listen to the link and it said he was the junior high youth pastor and taught a bible class? Seems like this is a lot more than just setting meetings, flights? And to where? So this pastor could go to his oasis in Hawaii? Mmm…
How did Cary Schmidt describe Jeremy in his blog post of 11/14/09?
“@JRWhitman – Jeremy Whitman, Assistant Pastor at Lancaster Baptist Church and Pastor Chappell’s assistant. Great man and friend!”
(This blog page was deleted recently, but the google header still exists – for now…read it quickly LOL!)
I remember when LBC ordained Jeremy Whitman.
I way back machined it. Hope it works https://web.archive.org/web/20110301023338/http://www.caryschmidt.com/2009/11/14-encouragers-to-follow-on-twitter/
This is the web archive of Cary Schmidt’s blog. Cary was close to Jeremy and knew very well what his job description was.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110301023338/http://www.caryschmidt.com/2009/11/14-encouragers-to-follow-on-twitter/
My son attended LBCS (he graduated from there) he also was in the youth group there. The paper may have said “Office job” but anyone in the roles that he held :assistant Youth Pastor and then graduating on with those same teens to eventually running a Young Adults Bible study that is more than an office job , that is a job that touches hearts, teaches and mentors young minds-that my friend is the role of a pastor and all teachers are held to a higher accountability James 3:1 & 2
Clerical work?? What a joke. If you actually went to that church, you’d know that wasn’t true. He was a youth pastor, a Sunday school teacher, and Paul Chappell’s right hand man. Clerical.. Geez.
I just went to buy the Valley Press and you guys are so fake!!! And Lyes after Lyes Bro: whitman was always next to pastor it says he was his right hand man for Tim christian to Lie and say he was nothing but a clerk office role? How can u guys be so Godly this man has sin and you and pastor got the nerve lie to av press but people that saw this man everyday there for 15 years know the truth God will judge you guys one day and your true colors are showing!!! The only fake pastoral is you Tim christoson and for you pastor paul chapell I’m praying for your fake people in this church!!!!!
Really?
The only unforgivable sin to the staff there is homosexuality. The staff will help any member get away with any other “sin” BUT…that church cannot tolerate homosexuality. The vile comments that I have personally heard come out of staff members mouths on that subject would make your skin crawl. This, I believe, is the reason they are distancing themselves from Jeremy. The one, unforgivable sin. I’m not saying Jeremy was, but even if he defended someone who was would be reason to ban him
I dont know either men, but If this is true. Why doesn’t someone say something?
Someone should say something if this is true
It’s standard damage control to distance like downplaying the suspects job. I smell bacon, whoops, I mean David Gibbs Jr or #3
That is funny!
Oh, I’m sure Paul Chappell has already called in favors to all of his effed up crazy circle.
Jenni, why do you say that? Can you give a sensible answer with no emotion? You have been caught up in a lot of drama and you’re not thinking clearly.
He was a youth parlor for years but in recent years he worked as an assistant
Pastor Chappell refers to Jeremy as an associate past in a post on his blog from 2007:
As our assistant pastor, Brother Jeremy Whitman, helped me this morning, we were able to encourage God’s people through teaching and through a video presentation about West Coast Baptist College. –
See more at: http://www.paulchappell.com/2007/09/24/teaching-gods-word/#sthash.CAxmGIRk.dpuf
http://lbc-downloads.com/slc/2010/audio/15-capturing-gods-vision-for-your-life.mp3
For you that pull the curtain down around this man…Let the comments fly…
My condolences go out to the family of Erik. I heard the gun shots that night. I live right around the corner. Erik had installed my Directv Recievers not that long ago. He was so friendly. He told us about how he had daughter. She is in my prayers.
As for everything else, no one should kill anyone. Who gave you the right to kill someone?
After reading all of these comments it hurts to see the ignorance and rage that people spew. I do not attend the church, nor do I like it much but just because Jeremy and Erik had affiliations there, it is not fair to blame the church.
It is obvious that Jeremy’s life was crashing down around him. There is no telling what a man can do when he is desperate and feels that he has no one and no where to go. Judging from what I read here and in the AV Press it looks like all of the major factors in Jeremy’s life had hit bottom and he felt he had lost everything. I am not sure how Erik got involved nor is it my business. I just feel so bad for his family.
I know the Whitman’s are terrific people. I knew Jeremy’s brother for a few years and he was the best. Super funny and intelligent. Lotsa good times.
I feel terrible for the families of these men.
Is there anyway I can get the latest article on this? I tried looking it up on the AV Press but they wont let me read it since I do not subscribe to their paper.
Wow what a tragedy! Didn’t know both men but from what I’m reading it seems like they knew something about EACHOTHER that the other person didn’t want no one to know! Was it over money? Or was it over love? Only God knows!
Anyone who know of abuse needs to report it.. the Chappell family comes from a long long history of covering abuse. Paul’s dad Larry was a abuser, his brother Mark is a molester and abuser and Paul covered him for years until he couldn’t he got divorced. Until then it was get CLA involved and cover all we can…….shame on them he is not a good man he is just as guilty as the abusers he covers for. It will all eventually come to light people are coming forward in this day and age. Do the right thing tell the truth Paul Chappell, if you remember what that is?
Wow. This site gives background about Paul’s brother and father…it is insane!
http://www.stufffundieslike.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4303
It is so sad that people think killing and murder are the only answers. But in Independent Baptist circles you destroy those who leave the fold, and blame Satan is trying to destroy the ministry. I wouldn’t believe anything a “Chappell” says. I’m sure there are plenty of secrets they don’t want being out so they will down play his role or job at LBC.
When my sister was hospitalized after a car crash, Jeremy was the first person to show up at the hospital. We didn’t even ask him to come. Somehow he found out and went straight there and it meant the world to us. Anyone else have a story of Jeremy? It doesn’t excuse what he ALLEGEDLY did. But maybe it’ll help some of the people who don’t know him what kind of good man we’re talking about here. Please share your stories.
And one day he snapped .. and chose to mudere his friend …the end.
Little do you know this is not the end. If you didn’t know him then don’t comment. You have no idea how many people he impacted spiritually throughout his life. Don’t write someone off based on a wrong act that they did right before they die. It doesn’t occur to anyone that he could have been UTI and taking anti-depressants for what he could have been going through in his personal life, job or his marriage or financially up until his last few months. Which can lead a person to be in a wrong state of mind to kill and be suicidal. There is a devil and he really likes to target most the people that are doing His work. I’m not defending what he did. It was wrong but also tragic. And people like you can stop being ignorant and post mean things like “the end” Jeremy will be missed by his family and everyone that knew him. My condolences to both families.
I did know both men, personally and who r u to tell me not to comment, my friend was killed by ur spiritual forgiven psycho of a “good man ” u ignorant church freaks, iam on anti depressants I would never dream of killing anyone stop makeing excuses for this demon of a nan, wow, if I have ever hated church freaks it is now, yeah keep making excuses!!!
I’m sorry for your loss, jenn along with everyone else affected by this tragedy. Although, your comments aren’t contributing anything positive to the situation. There are so many emotions being experienced from sadness to outrage. Kria just didn’t want you commenting if you didn’t know these men.
And this, of course, is what happens when you assume things about people. How dare anyone tell Jenn here to shut up? She lost her friend! If anyone has the right to speak out about this situation, it is the friends and family of Erik, the man who was MURDERED! So much discussion about poor poor Jeremy, and how no one should judge him. It seems like no one cares that this “godly man”, this “good kind soul that had a smile for everyone” KILLED A MAN.
Exactly dave, thank you .
I get that Jeremy is considered the Murderer, but doesn’t it take “two to tango?” Btw, I don’t say that to imply of any homosexual activity and I’m sadden to have to even mention that, but it seems that there is some immaturity within these comments. There’s so much being said in this thread, I just don’t know what to believe other than what was written in the actual article. I don’t like to speculate, but there’s so much of it being mentioned already that I’ve read that they were actually living together…I only mention this not intending to offend or beat facts into anyone, but as the reason why I ask my question in the first place?
I also wanted to add that I don’t mean to take away from Erik being a victim either. There just so much focus on Jeremy rather than Erik.
It doesn’t matter HOW MANY good things this man did. He killed someone – hello LBCers – is anybody listening. You would be smart not to mention how great a guy he was. It sounds so foolish. How about this for you.
Pilate – Good man just got dragged into something with the Jews.
Lee Harvey Oswald – give him a break he was just providing for his family.
John Wilkes Booth – Great Actor – he just snapped.
O.J. Simpson – what a great inspiration to the kids of Oakland and an incredible running back. He made a mistake.
My husband and I attended the school and church for a couple years, I didn’t love everything about it and I don’t associate myself with th Baptist label anymore but I am a Christian and I follower of Christ. One night Jeremy Whitman saw my husband buying a pizza at the store and invited us over for dinner that night. The generosity of his family was amazing. We could both always tell that he was being forced to live up to expectations that no human should have to keep up in the ministry. It sounds like he must have turned to drugs, which is very tragic that he didn’t handle it correctly. My heart is so sad for the whitmans and this guy Eric, although I think it’s safe to say he probably wasn’t innocent either . My husband had a close past with Bro Whitman during my husbands childhood and considered Jeremy a very dear friend. God forgive us for not doing our part to care for this man.
And here’s an illustration of the problem right here. Talk up about how good Jeremy was, how generous he was, and how he must have been under pressure or turning to drugs and how tragic that is, while the victim, the man who was MURDERED by Jeremy, is “this guy Eric” and that he “probably wasn’t innocent either.” You know one thing Erik was not? A murderer!
Its like a horrible twilight zone episode how there sticking up for a murderer, and trying to excuse him , what fake people, I wonder if they excuse all murderers that we see on the news , just unbelievable, its disturbing that this is how these so called christisns think.wow!!!
Exactly, Kristina.
I attended LBC and LBS and then WCBC. I do not attend there any longer, because I live too far away now. I don’t agree 100% with every thing said there.
But, I will tell you – Pastor Chappell is the best, most loving, most godly man I have ever met. The leaders at LBC are all wonderful Christian servants who want to serve the Lord and their community. That said – the devil tries to make every single one of us fall and mess up. Bro Whitman allowed the devil to get ahold of him, and this is what happened. I’ve know Bro Whitman for many years. I remember the day that he married Alicia. He was a good man. A good man that made a series of really bad choices. And he will answer to God for that.
It was not right what he did, no matter the reason and no matter how godly he was previously. Everyone that’s talking so much crap on Christians, Lancaster Baptist Church, and Jeremy – Please understand. I don’t think any of us on here are trying to justify what he did. It was wrong. Inconceivalbly wrong. I can still barely wrap my head around it. But also understand that he wasn’t currently a Sunday School teacher and wasn’t currently attending the church. He obviously had a crossroads in his life, previous to this, and made his decision to go a different direction. Unfortunatly, those decisions and the direction he chose ultimately led here, to this tragic end.
But, this is something that we are all capable of. Yes, we are. We are all sinners. The pastors at LBC are all sinners. They chose daily, hourly, with the Lord’s help, so stay on the right path. They are not better, nor do they claim to be. They claim to be servants of the Lord, and are just trying their very best to glorify God and help other people find the love of Jesus and eternal life.
All of this bashing of LBC on this thread and on the AV Facebook thread is just so awful and unfounded. It hurts to know the pain that Pastor, the staff, the church, and most importantly, Mrs. Whitman, her children, and the family of Ryan must be going through. I hope they don’t read any of this.
Bro Whitman did much good in this world. Much, much, good. It’s a shame that his last moments and legacy is so dark. But, that still doesn’t take away all the lives he’s helped, the good he’s done, and the souls that he may have pointed towards the Lord.
Erik was like a brother to me. He would never hurt any one he was a good person. My heart really hurts. He will be missed
I am sorry, Lorie. I never knew Erik, and I accidently called him “Ryan” above.
My heart goes out to his family and friends. I am so sorry for your loss.
Jen Ronan
my inside sources say it had to be drug related. either a dispute over getting drugs or drugs influencing his decisions.
Sorry, but Paul Chappell is an evil man. My family attended that church for 20+ years – from the beginning. One of my parents was on staff there for a brief time. I attended the school. Jeremy Whitman was my teacher. I cannot even imagine what disgusting things must have happened to make Jeremy snap like that. I cannot even imagine what would drive a good, loving person to that point, but Paul Chappell is certainly not blameless. I have personally witnessed the immoral, illegal things that this “man of god” has done. I have personally watched him ask his minions to lie and manipulate and intimidate in order to “protect the ministry.” He has crossed so many moral, spiritual, ethical lines he probably doesn’t even know where the lines exist anymore. And yet, he does just enough to keep his flock in toe — not asking too many questions. He somehow has won the benefit of the doubt. But don’t be fooled. He is personally responsible for my complete unwillingness to ever darken the door of a church. He has scarred me in so many ways, I cannot even begin. Thankfully, I was able to get out and not let my life become a wreckage of his evil, grasping, manipulative ways. Poor Jeremy. He evidently was not. I grieve so much for the families. I cannot even imagine. I hope they find peace. And I hope Paul Chappell and Lancaster Baptist Church find justice.
I am so sorry for your experience. I, too, was a very active core member of that church. I am very thankful that God chose to remove the blindfold that I wore for many years and I was able to see the manipulation and control that was an integral part of LBC. Please know that there are good churches out there that do not judge you based on what you wear or your past mistakes…..loving people who realize that we are all human and we are all on our own journey. Please know that not all Pastors are as controlling as Paul Chappell
I, too, am a former member of LBC. Grew up there my entire life. Loved every second of it.
Name one “illegal” or “immoral” thing you witnessed Paul Chappell do. If there are so many— name one. You can’t. End of discussion.
This issue is not with the church (LBC). Jeremy chose to leave the church 5-6 months ago. Lancaster Baptist Church did everything they could to reach out to him. He chose a different path, and he made the bad decisions he made, not LBC.
Lancaster Baptist Church is not perfect, we understand that. But don’t let Jeremy Whitman’s death be the reason that you can now publicly bash LBC because you don’t 100% agree with them. It’s ridiculous.
Please share what illegal and immoral things Paul Chappell has done? As a former member I would like to know
Immoral…..I personally witnessed first hand Paul lie about the condition of a home he purchased, I personally witnessed Paul preach at people about giving, giving, giving…..”it’s not equal giving, but equal sacrifice”……and right after banquet when people are coerced and manipulated into giving wedding rings and pink slips….Paul buys ……where do I start….a diamond ring for his wife, another vacation to some exotic destination, or a 50,000 vehicle ….lor perhaps another piece of property…..really? Where is the equal sacrifice when I knew families eating peanut butter and jelly for months to give to yet another building project……
Thank you so much for posting this!!! I, too, know about things Paul Chappell has done like this. It’s just so disturbing. How can he sleep at night?? Oh…on his 513490138 thread count sheets.
Well said! I agree 100%. Thank you for taking the time to write that.
That was for JenRonan
I find it very ironic that so many of these LBC folks are coming on here saying, “don’t judge! Don’t judge! He made a mistake! Forgive, forgive, forgive.” Yet if this had been some drug-related or gang-related shooting, they would all be clucking their tongues about how the community has gone “ghetto” and the Sheriff should do something about all of the horrible inner city crime in the Valley. I guess it really DOES matter what “gang” you belong to.
Don’t judge Christians by the World’s point of view. Many Christians chose to follow God’s word by not judging; but by praying for others. Yes, we do comment on wrong choices, that is correct, but judging is God’s place not ours. Forgiveness is something we state, because that is God’s Word. I am struck hard by what occurred. But, yes, it can happen to any of us, once we pull away from a personal relationship with the Lord our God. We all have choices to make and these choices we make are what determine our tomorrow. I and my husband will truly be praying for both gentlemen and their families.
I Thank God I don’t live in the state of California, or live in Lancaster, California, or attend Lancaster Baptist Church any more, If I did I might be incarcerated for life, I worked in the LBC, and help to build it from the very starting point. I know Jeremy and his family and every staff member at LBC. I moved out of Lancaster, California for about 13 years, all my children grew up in that church, and most of my children are great people now and productive citizens, about one year ago my youngest girl told us about a molestation that was happen to her as a child at the school, she said this went on for the entire time she attended, keep in mind, she is now in her twenties, when I found out, you cant imagine my thoughts, now I was thinking a man teacher done this horrible act, to my surprise, it was a female teacher, and to my surprise she still is currently employed at LBCS. Now my anger and guilt I feel daily about this act done to now my baby girl now in her twenties, do you know how I feel? Do you know how many time I feel like getting in my car, or taking the next airplane to Palmdale airport to seek my own justice? Now I don’t know what guilt and the burden that Jeremy was carrying, but it was just too heavy of a burden for him to carry, and it must have been things that was killing him inside. Did Jeremy grow a conscious? I think about Judas in the Bible, the sin that he betrayed Jesus, it was too heavy for Judas to bare so he killed himself, did Jeremy carry a heavy sin and betrayed Jesus children, I mean Jesus said, if anyone offended a child, MARK 9 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. Jeremy pain is gone, my Daughters daily suffers through the pain, daily. Will other victims come forward? God has a way of bringing all things to light, but it will be on Gods timeline not mans. I hope in pray for justice for my baby girl and the rest of the innocence victims of LBCS
There is a child predator there and YOU are doing NOTHING about it? How do you live with yourself??
By all means report it now! Call the Lancaster Sheriff’s Station at 661-948-8466! Tell them you need to speak to a child abuse detective. Children are in danger! You can report from a distance!
People don’t realize that current state law allows for the extension of the statute of limitations all the way back to incidents that occurred in the 1980′s! That teacher can and should go to jail!!
Save another child and please call in a report!
Don’t report it to the Lancaster Sheriff’s Station. Most of them go to that church and I guarantee you justice will not be served.
It will be swept under the carpet.
If you want real justice report it to the State law enforcement agencies.
Ok, if that’s the concern, call the LASD Child Abuse Unit in L.A. directly at 562-946-8531. No church affiliation there! BUT CALL!
Sorry, let me clarify…. that is “a lot” not most…
Please help protect the children who are in danger right now. Please spare them the pain your poor daughter endures. Call the Sheriff’s dept and report this monster.
Have you ever told the church leadership about the abuser?
I WAS ONE OF ERIK UNGERMAN’S PASSENGER ON HIS BUS COMPANY THAT HE USE TO WORK FOR CALLED R&D. HE USE TO DRIVE 172 AND THE BUS NUMBER WAS AV 24. HE WAS THE GREATEST BUS DRIVER. I AM GOING TO MISS HIM DEARY. AND EVERY ONE THAT USE TO RIDE IN HIS BUS IS ALSO GOING TO MISS HIM TOO. I AM GOING TO PRAY FOR HIS FAMILY. “RIP” MY DEAREST BUS DRIVER. YOU ARE IN GODS HANDS NOW. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING ME HOME SAFE EVERY AFTER NOON.
Mr/Mrs Innocence,
If you believe what your daughter says, why, oh why would you not report it if the teacher is still there??? Why would you not want someone else’s baby girl to be protected? You hold as much guilt as an acutal molester if you stand by and do nothing knowing it has happened in the past and that person is still in a position of authority over children.
We are praying for all the families involved and the church family. No one but those two ~and the Lord~ knows all the details. Regardless of everyone’s varying opinions, just keep the broken families in mind, and in prayer. They’ve been left behind to pick up the shattered pieces and try to navigate life in a whole new realm, something all of us prays never happens to us or to our loved ones….. but this an example, none of us knows every problem our loved ones have. This proves it can happen to any family.
Who is it?? Why wouldn’t you say something .. as a parent myself I would find justice and reveal this person! What if it happens again or maybe it has .. you can prevent it and show true colors of this person. Just blows me away !!!! Or is it not true??????
NO! don’t tip her off until a child abuse detective can get on the case.
Yeah, because she wouldnt know who she is… Makes no sense.
You are required by law to report that type of abuse. Unless, of course, you are making it up.
Please report I have my nieces & nephews attending that school & church. I have alway had a funny feeling of thing that they say about the church that make me worried. PLease call save children
Please don’t believe this obvious lie. If this person’s daughter was actually molested by a currently employed teacher, she would have reported it. She is clearly lying for attention or is simply the worst parent in the world!!
It is not an obvious lie. You are just hoping it is.
Anyone who has been sexually abused should report it to the sheriff’s dept. and start an official investigation. As stated by another poster, CA law allows cases that go back to the 1980′s. Don’t be intimidated.
Shame on you for not exposing this person’s name.
No, shame on anyone who would abuse a kid. That is where the shame belongs. It often takes years for a child victim to feel safe enough to come forward. That is why many states have extended the statute of limitations.
…but no shame on these who NOW know, but say nothing. Apparently the children have already come forward to ‘loving’ parents who aren’t saying anything… except anonymously on this forum along with other bitter sentiments toward a church… which really has little to do with this article, except how they knew each other.
A parent can not make an adult child report it to the police, they can only encourage them to do so. I pray they find their voice and the courage to come forward. They might be able to protect others.
One never knows what’s going on in someone else’s mind or someone else’s life. It’s only God who knows the heart and who is the judge. My deepest sympathies go out to both families.
Really
Really good words. May he rest in peace.
First off, I had known Brother Whitman for about 2 years and never knew him to be suicidal nor homicidal. Second, police didn’t state that a weapon was recovered at the scene of the suicide. Usually, in suicide reports, they would detail the caliber of weapon that was used.
Anybody can drive a silver car. Hell, just about 30% of the people own a silver car. The time of the shooting that occurred happens to be on a night where there is people/traffic are about. And it’s convenient that sheriff deputies ‘linked’ the car that was found at the scene of the suicide? I think not.
Third, the locations of both incidents are: far apart from each other, has a lot of population to cover, has stoplights along the way, and possibly have police that could see a speeding car and engage it in a chase (if not stopped).
Fourth, you all need to stop bashing the church and yourselves. It urks me to even know that there are “stereotypes” out there who cry racism or some other stupid lame excuse. I am sorry to say this, but you all are stereotyping one another to give yourself a label. I am tired of hearing “blacks this”, “whites that”, or “Hispanics this”. You are so quick to jump the gun without even knowing the facts fully; so do me a favor and make a change, a positive one so you won’t be labeled as such.
As for me, I will be waiting for the coroner’s full report as well as hearing word of mouth from other people that knew the two very close to make my inferences.
Yeah, this whole thing seems so circumstantial! I mean what are the odds that one roommate would be shot from a silver vehicle? What are the odds his roommate drove a silver vehicle? What are the odds his roommate just happened to commit suicide shortly after? Must have been one of those gang members that everyone first assumed, gangs got them both!
Yeah, this whole thing seems so circumstantial! I mean what are the odds that one roommate would be shot from a silver vehicle? What are the odds his roommate drove a silver vehicle? What are the odds his roommate just happened to be shot shortly after? Must have been one of those gang members that everyone first assumed, gangs got them both!
? Roommates?
It is terrible to see the heartless comments posted about LBC and the pastor there. The people behind those comments will never know the true heart of that church. There has never been a more giving church, to the people there, and to their community. One man’s sin is not to be reflected on that church. There is nothing “cultish” about it! The problem lies with a man with a sinful nature, and that is something we all posess. The moment we believe we are above this, we are setting ourselves up for a fall. Sin is sin. Because we are human, we believe this sin is the worst, but the truth is that all sin is damaging. Some sins have worse consequences, but they are all the same. Romans 6:23
A man must take responsibility for his own sin, no one else is to blame. When a man stands before God to be judged, he will answer for his own sin, he can not place the blame on others.
It is ridiculous to point fingers when tragedy strikes. All these people mentioning kind words are reminiscing of the times when Jeremy Whitman helped them, they aren’t covering up his mistakes. They are trying to be sensitive to his family. What else can you say at a time like this?
Why was Jeremy no longer employed at the church?
YES I wanna know too??? why was he no longer at the church????
It’s none of your business why he is no longer there! There are privacy laws that
Tragic… A man murders his friend and takes his own life and everybody starts bashing the church he used to go to.
Having an argument with your friend and then taking both lives is a tragedy, whether you go to church or not.
If the murderer was truly ‘walking with the Lord’ this never would have happened. My condolences to the family of the murder victim.
My question would be this… What would make any man so angry or hurt they might kill? Christian or not , these were still men. Putting myself I to a situation, if someone harmed my children, or my spouse, depending on the scenario could I kill? Possibly. I would hope not, but I could not honestly say beyond a shadow of a doubt that rage from such a scenario would not cause me to act in such a way. Taking ones own life in such a situation could be (not saying it was but could have been) an act of self punishment. Knowing what you have done and what would be in store for yourself and your families if you were to go through our tattered justice system , it could have been seen as the best option for himself and his family; or remorse may have overtaken him … No one can judge a man on his actions without understanding all the circumstances involved. And though many would like to blame the church as a whole, it was a MAN who committed these acts not the church. Not all churches are the same; and those who are saved A&E jot immune to heartache despair or the ability to harm/kill. People make their own choices. My heart goes out to the families and friends of both these men. I pray you find peace and that joy will one day return to your homes.
It blows my mind how in all these comments the “Church” comes under attack. Are they their brothers’ keeper? No!! The Church cannot be held responsible for one individual members behavior!! Would you all be attacking the black community, or the gay community, or the catholic community, or the Mormon community if this incident happened in their midst? Get real, this stuff happens everywhere, all around the world in different settings! It could have happened anywhere, nothing to do with the Church period.
Don’t you dare try to make the church the “victim” in all this!!! The church in not “under attack.” Its members are under criticism for defending and honoring a cold blooded, vicious murderer! There is more kind words in these comments for the murderer than there are for the victim. Don’t you see something wrong with that picture? If you something should blow your mind, that should. This is bloody damn ridiculous!
To answer your question, YES. People would be attacking the black community if the incident happened in their midst. I’ve seen it here time and time again. Section 8, EBT, go back to Compton, trash from LA, all that! This happens whether the blacks are the suspects or the victims. So don’t even try it sister!
Minorities in general are blamed for all crime in the AV. We were blamed for this incident at first. Now they want to blame the church, so sad.
You tell ‘em Julie! Well said.
So I just read the Valley Press story on this… I mean seriously??? The headline alone says people are mourning a “Godly man.” W.T.F!! When did we start eulogizing DOUBLE MURDERERS! That man killed two people, his best friend and himself. End of story!!!
Everything else is inconsequential at this point. Go to a prison and every murderer will tell you a back story, but should that condone what they did???? Oh, and it gets better. The LBC church leaders are now trying a minimize the killer’s role in their church by saying “JEREMY WAS NOT IN A PASTORAL ROLE, HE WAS NEVER A PASTOR, HE TAUGHT SUNDAY SCHOOL ONCE OR TWICE!!!”
Either these “great honorable” church leaders have terrible memories or they flat out lying! I did a simple google search for Jeremy Whitman pastor and looky here. I came across one of his downloadable “ministry sessions” from an LBC conference. One of your great honorable church leaders introduces Jeremy saying Jeremy used to serve as the “JUNIOR HIGH YOUTH PASTOR,” and he leads the Crosswalk Adult Bible Class. Don’t backpeddle now good church leaders!
Take a listen to Jeremy tell you how to “Capture God’s Vision for Your Life.” If capturing god’s vision means killing my best friend and myself, you can have that vision buddy!! SMH…
http://lbc-downloads.com/slc/2010/audio/15-capturing-gods-vision-for-your-life.mp3
LBC is full of liars and deceitful people. They will do and say whatever they can to protect themselves and make sure they’re still getting fat paychecks. The pastor, Paul Chappell, owns so many rental homes, it’s ridiculous…one in Hawaii!!! Yet, there are people in HIS church that can’t even afford to eat ramen. What kind of leader is that?! What kind of church is that?!
wait… the pastor owns rentals!! and one IN HAWAII!!! That is Ridiculous! I knew there was some serious evil stuff goin down over there- just didn’t know how nefarious it was.
so, jenni, are you his property manager, or what?
Listen, as far as I know Pastor Chappell doesn’t own any such things. And as far as people at lancaster getting big fat paychecks…that isn’t true. I use to work there. No, I don’t agree with everything going on there. But think about it, if your loved one had gone and killed someone then shot himself, wouldn’t you want people to wait and hear the whole story? I know I would. I’m not condoning Mr. Whitman’s actions. Just put yourself in his family’s shoes. No one is perfect. We all fall down at some point in our lives. The issue is that everyone is so anti-Christian, or more specifically anti-Independant Baptist that even small slips are blown out of proportion. People are ready to attack and strike at one of the longest standing belief systems at any given moment. If Jeremy had never been affiliated with LBC would people be so malicious in their responses to this article? Let’s say he had just been a gang member or some random dude who came through town. How would you react? In conclusion, what he did was wrong, no quarrel there. But if your loved one had done the same as he did, wouldn’t you want someone to express sympathy for you, and show you kindness in your hour of need? The only reason people here are acting ticked off is because Jeremy is a former associate pastor of LBC. If he had been anyone else, none of this would be here. Now, you may feel free to attack my comments, fire away.
You have the gall to actually say: ‘even small slips are blown out of proportion ‘
You and all your small minded co-cultists need to put your reality check glasses on. Murder is Murder. Never forgiven!!!! That’s why Jesus said that if you even think unkind thoughts about another, you have murdered them in your heart already. Here’s a suggestion: try some actual ‘Independent’ bible study away from the cult.
From other blogs on the internet written by former deacons and leaders at the LBC “compound”: Chappell’s salary in 2000 (13 years ago) was set by the deacons or “yes men” at over $250,000 per year. At they time he owned condos in both Maui and in Palm Springs, as well as a dozen or so local managed rental properties.
No problem and so what, you say, until you realize this guy tells his people to sell their motor homes and take second mortgages out on their homes to build his buildings. Big-time double standard there.
If you still go there, don’t drink the kool-aid!
“from other blogs and blah blah blah” Don’t drink the koolaid, eh? I went there for 8 years and never once heard him say anything about selling mobile homes or taking second mortgages. you are full of venomous hate seething out in your comments. you’re miserable inside and want everyone to feel it.
thanks for trying to be our hero and save us from such an ungracious human like Paul Chappell, who hasn’t given himself for others, but anyone who genuinely knows him or the inner workings of our church knows better.
Heard many times that Chappell carries concealed and so do his body guards. That’s bizarre. Any person who is supposed to be serving the Lord in a pastoral function, should not be using the church’s funding to buy his rentals. That is bogus.
Hi Jenni, you ask: “What kind of leader is that?” The kind that SHOULD BE EXPOSED! Then my dear, just go on your merry way and have peace within yourself. God in due time will expose what is in the dark.
Completely agreed. These people are deluded, almost cult-like in their white-knighting and denial. Just look at the comments to this article, and you will see this behavior. It’s amazing to me that, when it was thought that this was gang-related, everyone thought that the killer was just another scumbag, but when it came out that the killer was a Sunday school teacher at LBC, all of a sudden we don’t know the whole story, live and let live, don’t judge, worry about where your own soul will end up. Complete hypocrisy at its best.
Here’s how it is: whether he was a gang member or an LBC pastor, he was a scumbag murderer, and I’m perfectly comfortable making that judgement.
Agreed.
THE TRUE COLORS ARE COMING OUT…THEY ARE ALL LIARS!
Here is a direct quote from Paul Chappell’s “Striving Together” Blog:
“As our assistant pastor, Brother Jeremy Whitman, helped me this morning, we were able to encourage God’s people through teaching and through a video presentation about West Coast Baptist College. – See more at: http://www.paulchappell.com/tag/striving-together/page/10/#sthash.3qvlgwcD.dpuf
The church is backpeddling. What a bunch of pathetic people.
I DON’T KNOW WHY THE MEMBERS THERE CANNOT SEE THROUGH THE LEADERSHIP. THEY ARE ALL SNAKES!
For years they’ve been referred to as the west coast Branch Dividians.
Letlow,
It’s typical stupid people like you expect Christians to be perfect. No Christian I ever know believes that and this murder/suicide event proves that.
The difference: the murderer STILL goes to Heaven if he’s a true Christian . . . because Jesus PAID the sin. I know that does NOT make any sense to you . . . which is why I call you stupid.
Airboss
Really, ‘Nick’? Stay Classy.
Been around Baptists a long time, I have never seen such a strange version of the Church. its near cult like with membership, You are shunned if you leave you are taught others are not equil to you and they just pester neighborhoods with the crap they hand out non stop. most can’t afford the upkeep of the homes and yet have time to run to the Compound 3 days a wekk..what gives
West Coast Branch Davidians. Pretty much s’plains it all.
You are correct. They will deny all connections with Jeremy and say those things but as you pointed out they will do anything to protect themselves. Jeremy gave 15+ plus years to this church and after one mistake they push him away. This is not the reason why he did what he did but it should show LBC that turning away a person is a sin and goes against what they so call “teach”. God forgives us for all mistakes no matter how many we make…maybe some of them should learn from this.
Letlow I think that comment was made by the victim’s daughter, talking about her dad.
That being said, it was pretty obvious that LBC was tring to disassociate from the perpetrator in the article..Lots of koolaid drinking there, judging from the posts here and on facebook.
Have to say a lot of excuses being made for this guy despite the fact he brutally murdered a friend and others could have been injured if there was any traffic on that street.
Surprised the L.A. stations haven’t picked this story up.
Thanks for the link.
Wow,doesn’t sound like a” clerical,office role”,does it ? Did Mr Chappel misspeak?
where did mr. chappell say this? is it in this article?
Front page of today’s AV Press.
Front page of the AV Press.
Can you please link us where it says lbc church members are trying to deny jeremys role in the ministry or are you just asauming or heard it from someone else please and thank you.
It’s on the front page of AV Press. You’d have to buy a paper or have a subscription to read online.
Well whether this has to do with the church or not, the whole thing SCREAMS “crime of passion” What the hell, a ex young adult minister shoots up the car of one of his one time youths. And his ex still attends the church?? What kind of wife is that?? What happened to stand by your man? Or does only apply if you still attend my church? I mean running through my head is anything from drugs, to affairs to God knows what. And to leave behind all those children …. Bizarre!!!
The “godly” part was referring to the victim, NOT Whitman. Didn’t you read the caption in the story?
“Ungerman’s daughter, Samari Ungerman, described her father as “family-oriented” and a “very godly man.” DUH!
I do think God has a way of sorting all of this out. He is not worried, or surprised by this tragedy or any of our comments.
You sir, have written the most decent comment here, thank you!
Lancaster Baptist church only “cares” about you when you’re doing exactly what they want you to do. Once you “leave the church” (as they call it), they gossip about you, shun you, give you dirty looks, etc. Lancaster Baptist members are NOT very Christ-like. They knew Jeremy needed help, but instead of offering that, as Christ would have, they took the pious, holier-than-thou route. Sad and DISGUSTING. Jeremy was obviously in so much pain. And he was alone. Paul Chappell and the entire staff will be answering for this one day. It’s all about money, power, and control for them. They have no genuine compassion or care for people. RIP Jeremy. My deepest condolences to the family and friends of the victim. To lose someone you love in such a way is just tragic.
Moses was a murderer. Kind David was a murderer. The Apostle Paul was a mass murderer and terrorist. Salvation trumped their flesh and sin problem.
Jesus had come into Jeremy long ago as his Saviour. Once in, Jesus never leaves or forsakes no matter what our flesh does to us having been deceived. Indwelling sin in Jeremy’s flesh was stimulated by something. God knows exactly what happened and why. He knew about all of this even before Jeremy got saved. Yet he used Jeremy as His servant when he was in his right mind and walking in the Spirit. People are hurting and emotional . We all need to go to our knees and to the Scriptures for comfort and wisdom in this matter from the LORD. Our culture and environment are riddled with substances that are mind altering. Saved Christians are not immune to this. Obviously Jeremy was not in his right mind. Let’s pray for the families and the church to heal and see many saved through this event. LRS
1 John 3:15. Paul, etc, had previously been murderers but were transformed and their lives were marked by repentance and the works of faith. Making your last act an act of murderous hatred does not bode well. I’m not saying one way or another, but we can’t say with confidence he wasnt just acting a part.
David wasn’t “previously” a murderer. He was plainly a murderer. If you’re going to use 1 Jn 3:15 to condemn a murderer, you better use 1 Jn 2:6 to condemn every Christian beside Jesus himself. 1 John is always taken out of context…
I didn’t known either one of these men, I’ve been reading these comments, I feel for the families of both, but honestly NO ONE NO MATTER WHAT has the RIGHT to take someone elses life PERIOD……..
Several people have post not to be quick to rush to judgement on Jeremy Whitman. We for those of us who don’t know him this murder/suicide he committed is all we have to go on at this point. Some of you have said that we don’t know all the facts and his motive for doing this. The only fact I DO know at this point is that it’s a murder/suicide and in all the scenarios and situations that my feeble brain can conjure up to try to “justify” what Jeremy Whitman did I’ve found ZERO. Because regardless of the circumstances that lead to this terminal act there is NO justification for it. Therefore I will pass judgement on Jeremy based on these final two acts he committed in his obviously miserable life by saying he is scum. He is the lowest of the low. Giant glossy posters with his picture and a message saying “Don’t Be Like Jeremy the Jackass” should be put up all over the Antelope Valley so that people will stop wasting beers while millions of kids in India continue to go sober every day and night. This is what happens when you join cults. You become pawns on the chessboard of their little game to try and win more members by using goat-bite hypnosis on people and “programming” them to commit a high profile murder suicide. Some of you reading this will think I’ve become completely unhinged. Well you’re right. I have. It’s the torrential downpour of pure stupidity in the form of bad television programs (mostly overly dramatic reality TV shows) and horrible music regurgitated over and over by corporate controlled syndicated reality radio stations that have washed away what little sanity I had to begin with. Some of you will attack me for this post but I’ve never been overly concerned what others think of me. The lion is never concerned about what the sheep feel. RIP Erik Peter Ungerman.
CULT…almost everyone call it the Lacaster cult or The Compound….someone should look into this place 20/20 other news shows should be contacted. not just for this sad killing but the drones of members would walk around in a daze. They are almost comic book like
Listen, I’m one of thise “cult drones” as you put it. And honestly we don’t walk around in a daze. You do realize there is a college on that campus right? And most people who are there are half dead because they have been studying all night for some crazy test? I’m one of the few who didn’t drink the koolaid there, and to be honest I do get flack for it. But you are unjustly generalizing everything there when you haven’t spoken to EVERY single person. Take me for instance, do I seem like I’m the kind of person to walk around in a daze? I hope not! Stereotypes are all over the place- the dumb blonde, bookish brunette, hot-tempered red head (those are minor examples)- but just because we have stereo-types doesn’t mean that they are accurate or fair. Some of the best people I know I met at LBC and WCBC. I know the faculty on the college side better than the church and they are some of the most genuine people you will ever meet. They would literally give you the shirt off their back if you needed it. This world has just become a cynical, dark place. I myself tend towards cynicism. But what may I ask, is this country founded upon? If i do recall accurately, it is founded on Christian/Biblical principles. And- Oh…what is that one part of the Bill of Rights? Yes, freedom of religion. That’s why the Puritans came to America in the first place. Are you going to call the people who established our nation and gave us the ability to write nasty and nice comments as we please “a cult” with “drones of members that walk around in a daze”? I hope not. They gave their life for your freedom.
And the illustrious Mayor of Lancaster is a member…anyone surprised by that? Thought not.
THE mayor is NOT a member of LBC. Figures you would say that since nothing else you have said has been true.
Funny, the mayor claims to be a member.
Congrats to all the church bashers. You’ve been waiting for years for one member of the TEN THOUSAND member church to fall and now you can have your party. Do you feel you’ve won? The church is made up of real people with real struggles and they come together to worship a perfect God. If they’re at fault for anything, it’s for giving the illusion that everything is perfect. There are much worse things many of us are guilty of.
No one was waiting for a anything? Be real with yourself it’s no ones fault! Get it right…did anyone know this was going to happend? Your ignorant! Talking about a party! Shut up n go to sleep u got work to do in the morning have a meeting with workers at church and renew yourself n give out a helping hand to your 10 thousand church members. Praying for you! U must have a guilty guilty mind.
Uh, no Eddy…murder pretty much trumps all the bad things a sick little mind can conjure up. I find it interesting that the ‘church’ hierarchy is distancing themselves from the murderer in the form of lying about his duties and capacity within the west coast Branch Davidians.
10,000 members?? There’s a stretch! Maybe on their books it shows that! But that would include every college kid pushed to go there by brainwashed parents and every kid brought even one time on their many buses, also every members dogs and cats to buffer the numbers.
If you take away the enslaved college students, a good Sunday may be 1500 tops. The AV may not hold the best and brightest, but there’s only so many people willing to check their brains at the door to keep membership there.
Thanks but no thanks! I’ll stick to worshipping Jesus instead of Paul.
1500 is closer to the attendance of their Spanish Dept. Get right getreal; you are obviously a “Paul” flunkie based on you understanding of attenders from out-of-state.
“Paul Flunkie” > “Paul Groupie”
truth>lies,
and btw im not either a flunkie or a groupie. just had to comment on your lacking fact facts youre throwing out of the emptiness inside.
Yea your right.. there`s not 10,000 members.. but there is about 4,000 crazy people there like i said I am a member but not for long i will not have a problem leaving LBC with what has happened and how their handling everything I don`t want people to know I`m a member.. I do not need to set in a $4,000,000.00 build and listen to a man that is only helping one family Thats just WRONG There`s alot of other churchs out there wonder what they think of LBC now.. Erik is a great guy
This Man had a beautiful :) Smile he was always so nice! I agree with ^^^^^^^^^I have seen it happend too not so long ago this lady was yelling pointing her finger in someone’s face^.^Mathew 118:17 pray for this church and Mr. Whitman his family and kids and hopefully the church stops judge in and bing so fake! He will have his judGement day with God no one has the right to judge anyone I don’t care what position u got in this church you are not Our Lord Jesus Christ! Will miss seeing his beautiful smile:)
I agree:( this is all so sad this someone needs to speak up and keep it real and not be so fake who? Serves The Lord and then kill and commit suicide? Something serious was going on! And God knows the story!
I AGREE NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE SOME ONES LIFE NO MATTER WHAT PERIOD………
If you all could think of his family. He has young children and a wife. They are deeply hurting right now. Despite his mistake they are suffering from a loss. Please pray for them. All people are sinners including the sinner who trusts in God. Jeremy Whitman did what we are ALL CAPABLE of doing. We can all become overcome with a wicked thought and then a wicked action. BUT nonetheless what is done is done..please think of his family though. My heart is burdened and hurting for them. Thanks.
Mistake? Mistake? Mistake is running a stop sign and killing someone. Blasting someone multiple times with a handgun is NOT a mistake. I do admit, I can’t get inside this guy’s head, but don’t call multiple shots with a handgun a mistake.
Yu should be very involved in finding out the story, if that is your church. All I keep reading about here is Jeremy..who murdered his supposedly good friend. Who also quit his job. Who also left his wife and family. Really? Why aren’t all you people concerned with the murdered Erik Ungernman? What about him? His family? He was stalked and murdered. That is beyond sad. It’s beyond tragic and illuminates the Cult Religiosity’s impact on the complete breakdown of society.
Everyone has there own opinion that is y? I’m writeing this comment staff from this church tell you can I help you with anything? And you really don’t need the help but when you do ask your Sunday school teacher? Or a teacher no one helps? Then they will ignore your problem I been there I’m telling you from experience this people are dead and the church needs to start getting involve more this is really sad I’m praying for this two man who lost their life’s and I’m sure everyone at the church are saying Jeremy my brother in Christ but what did u do? To help him? Or help this situation? Nothing…. Because everyone is so judgemental there I have seen it with my two eyes! I have to explain to my 5 children about this tragedy and staff pastoral wake up and do something this is God trying to tell you to help and do something? Praying for this church and don’t blame others if u were close to this man don’t pretend like you don’t know what was going on!!!
This is a man who was overcome with wicked thoughts that led to wicked actions. This is the devil working to destroy a good church. The devil is against God. The church is composed of people who ALL DO SIN. So it is safe to say that ALL the people at Lancaster Baptist Church and ALL the people in the Antelope Valley are doing wrongly because we are ALL capable of doing sin, great or small. Please consider that God can do NO sin..but man does sin. All people judge everyone. We are all on an equal plane of sinfulness. Yes people who claim a God who is not a hypocrite ought to live like God but in essence our very nature is sinful and it is impossible to live a perfect life aside from God Himself living through you.
To my cousin Erik, (“Jon-B”) I will truly Miss you forever until we meet again in Heaven. I don’t know much about LBC, and I know that if both men were in need of counsel then the church should of provided it for them. Some people lose there way; and when your out of God’s grace and protection the enemy will come in like a flood. He comes to Steal, Kill, and Destroy. Both men are gone and families are torn. Only God knows the true hurt and pains and disagreement’s of Erik & Jeremy. What came over him to do such a thing, we as individuals may never know. But now is now the time for all that …..My Little cousin is without a Father-Erik and will have to deal with that forever; along with Jeremy’s own children….Remember we all need to walk in Love…Hate is not going to bring either one of them back…..This Hurts; just Pray and Jeep both Families Lifted Up!!!!…Love Ro.
I went to this church and stop going because Sunday school teacher are hypocrites u tell them about your personal life and then they judge you on Sunday morning about what you told them of your personal life! No one is perfect and God will use this as a example to everyone at this church we are all sinners and need to realize we make mistakes but don’t judge us! God is the only one who can judge this man! All staff needs to wake up and smell the coffee stop acting like u guys r so perfect everyone has problems! I was in line at the restroom in this church and two lady’s were talking about this girl saying she’s ghetto who? Is putting down a new christian is wrong I’m just praying to God that he forgive us for our sins Rip to both men praying for this church and for people to not ignore someone else’s problems they need to help people a lil bit better this really hurtful and I have to explain all this to my kids is seriously sad. Lord protect us from all evil.
Do you really think the Church is responsible for the two girls you heard saying those things??? Everyone is welcome to LBC, unfortunately they can’t tell anybody how to behave, what to say or treat other people. Pastor always says, hate the sin but continue to love the sinners for we are all Sinners even Pastor Chappell.(saved by grace thru Christ) I have heard Pastor publicly apologized to person/s who he might have offended. Having said that, Pastor Chappell has repeatedly acknowledged that he himself is an imperfect individual but he still has to preach from the Bible so do Sunday School Teachers. Your problem/s are not an isolated problem, we all go through similar problems & if the Preachers/Teachers address them on the Pulpit, it is backed up with the word of GOD. I, too, have been offended, hurt, etc, etc by person/s from LBC but I know the GOD I serve is perfect & everything I go through is His perfect & permissive Will. I thank the Lord that I haven’t become callous to the nudges of the Holy Spirit, may it be thru problems, preaching or direct or indirect counseling. We live in an imperfect world, but the offenses & hurt I may have received from my Church people, may it be directly or indirectly meant, far outweighs the benefits I reap from my imperfect Church!!!! I pray that you can forgive the imperfections of LBC & heal from it!!!!
I’m not the one still at the church I been gone for a reason! Like a said this are members of this Dutch for 15 to 20 years y? Do they act so ungodly? Because they let there membership get to there head I been here longer then u I remember a lady was do mad at me because I sat were she sits every Sunday morning I ask got to forgive all the christian people there that think they are all that just because u been there longer dosent give you the right to treat others like crap like I said ofcourse I’m healed…. Now I walk away from all this lies n hypocrites God knows y? He wanted this accident to happen this is Gods world not LBC world treat everyone the poor equal! If u work there and have kids there they have the better grades and opportunity then a new christian believe that :) but I smile when I open my bible and read Gods word we are happy away from this judgemental people!
I’m glad you are doing well. I have been a member of LBC for quite awhile & I know it is not perfect because I AM NOT PERFECT!! If all these accusations & comments are true, then I will wait for my Perfect GOD to intervene, until then I will not let my emotions get in the way of faithfully & sincerely serving my GOD, Jesus Christ thru a local church, LBC.
This is truly a heart wrenching loss for all who loved and knew Erik Ungerman and Jeremy Whitman. No one knows the reasoning behind this terrible incident but God. My prayers are with all who were affected by this. I knew Jeremy Whitman for most of my life and he was a good man who lost his way in the end. Many people are hurt and angered…it’s understandable, but to place the blame on the church is wrong. I grew up attending the church, the school and even the college. I may not attend the church now for my personal reasons, but to read what people have said about the church and Pastor Paul is so far from the truth. We all are human and God gave us the ability to choose right from wrong. You can not blame this situation on the church based on one person’s actions. Yes, Jeremy took the life of another as well as his own, and he will stand before God and answer for his sin. But the rest of us who are still here, it’s our duty to pray for, encourage, uplift and help the loved ones who have suffered from this tragedy.
Oh boy! Another responsible gun owner!
Another responsible gun owning, supposedly ‘good’ Christian. I find it completely unacceptable that the folks that have spent years allowing themselves to be hoodwinked and brainwashed in that cult don’t even have the decency to feel badly for Erik Ungerman, a member of their church and a person who was ambushed and murdered while waiting for a traffic signal to turn green.
My family attended this church for a very long time. I was molested along with other children at that church . To whoever these people that our commenting about how great Lancaster is they can all go [removed] themselves. The trauma that was caused it affected my life more ways than anyone can ever imagine Many people that I’ve gone to the church and the school with did not turn out to be the “Godly”
people that they attempted to influence . They used fear and very cultist ideals to scare people into religion. Instead of allowing people to be who they are and feel the way they need to They surprised people’s true personalities and cause more damage than you will ever know. To all these idiots on this post that are supporting Lancaster Baptist Church I’m glad you had a great experience but me and my classmates didn’t . I wish more of my classmates were stronger to come forward so we can bring these at molesters to Justice.
J – Do not wait. Be strong and tell your story! As you keep your silence, others may be harmed. This cult must be exposed for what it is. I pray for your strength.
Yah, come out & name, names, why not??? If you are so brave as to make this comment & accusations, why not come out completely & don’t wait for ” all your classmates who were molested too” As much as I can’t believe what you have said, I will never condone any such wrongdoings. My son attended LBS & WCBC, he had told me positive & negative scenarios, was I surprised??? Of course not because, LBC, LBS & WCBC never claimed that they are perfect just like any other places in this world!!! (Negative Scenarios were never about a crime committed) In your case, molestation is very much a crime so come out, come out wherever you are!!! Oh by the way, my son turned out to be a responsible adult, married with kids & yah he attributes it mostly to his upbringing & going to LBC!!!
Oh yah, my daughter on the other hand is living a very comfortable & financially stable life, married with children but with no evidence of a spiritual life. Do I love her less?? of course, not but she was definitely raised in the same environment as my son. I was once told,” NEVER blame the High standard, but instead focus on the heart” My two children were in the same upbringing but has individually decided a different path!!! I believe my GOD who I serve will turn around everything for HIS GLORY thru prayers & faithfulness.
Another poster going by the moniker “innocence” has also made allegations of molestation in Lancaster Baptist’s Christian school. You are not alone. Please call the LASD Child Abuse Unit in L.A. directly at 562-946-8531 to help protect the kids currently attending and bring the abuser(s) to justice.
Did you ever tell anyone in church leadership about this abuse?
No… She didn’t report it because it’s obviously not true!
VERY OBVIOUSLY!!!!
Shame on you for not revealing your molester’s name.
It is not too late.
Current state law allows for the extension of the statute of limitations all the way back to incidents that occurred in the 1980′s! That teacher can and should go to jail!!
Save another child and please call in a report!
WOW! its so sad to see all this comments about the “church”……. like a few people has said, the church has NOTHING to do with this, Bro. Whitman was a not going to church anymore, the church tried many MANY times to talk to him, we looked for him, we called him and he will turn us down! He had a lot of help coming from the Church but he wanted nothing to do with anyone…… TRUST ME, THERE R REASONS AS OF WHY HE DID THIS, but its not for me to tell anyone, all of u with ur bad comments here r just a bunch of nosy people trying to get the gossip going….. how about stop commenting and stop talking about a church that has helped soooooo many people here in the AV and other places even financially…. by the way LBC is not a cult… if it wasn’t for Pastor Chappell, Parris and LBC the av will really be a living hell city….. its already bad as it is…. ya’ll r just trying to blame the church for no reason….. How about the man that killed his mom in Palmdale?? r u going to blame the church too when they have never been at LBC?? how about the guy that raped a little girl at a Dennys in Palmdale?? it that also LBC’s fault! PLEASE get ur crap straight!
Personally I think the term “cult” should only be reserved for extreme situations, like when the organization monitors and makes demands on your personal life outside of the group. Churches may say a lot of silly things, but they don’t keep tabs on attendees to the point where they drive up in black vans and kidnap you if you skipped services that week. ;)
Oh you mean like tell you that you can’t go to the movies, you can’t listen to ANY music that is not from LBC, you can’t wear pants……ANYWHERE……look at the “workers standards”. Many of you posting are only casual attenders on Sundays……you are not even really considered members unless you have a three to thrive mentality and are there 7 days a week……give me a break!
I knew Jeremy Whitman one of the nicest people I met for this to happen is not something I can fathom him doing. He left the church because of all of the deceit and lies that go on there and all of their underhanded doings. LBC is the very essence of a cult type of worship to the point that I am no conspiracy theorist but there is even a possibly that this has all been set up by these “christians.” Paul Chappell and R. Rex Parris run this town and I must say in the time visiting that church nothing has pushed me further from their so called Christianity and very few people live up to what they try and claim they portray Jeremy was a great man he made me feel welcomed there.
R.I.P. Jeremy Whitman
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
May God Be with you All. Judge not and you shall not be Judged. May Peace be with you and let this rest in Gods hand, for he is the King of all Kings , The Lord of all Lords , The God of all Gods. The Creator of all mankind.. When you are born your Destiny awaits you.
People will find any way to blame & bash the church, when the incident had absolutely nothing to do with the church… but overall I pray this tragedy brings us all closer to the Lord.
and to those that didn’t know Jeremy personally, please think before passing judgemnt. He was a great man that just lost his way, as we all do.. prayers to the families & to all who have heavy hearts tonight over this incident.
I always find it strange when people continue to describe a murderer as a “nice man.” Not “I thought he was so nice” or “he seemed like a good person,” but statements like yours “please think before passing judgemnt. (sp)” No, I’m pretty secure in my judgement that he turned out to be a murderer. He was NOT a great man. He was a killer.
My god i`ve never heard so much crap talking in my life. I personaly knew both of these men Jeremy at from church and Eric from work. and they were both of two of the nices men I knew. Helpfull, funny and got along with almost everyone.. No church is perfect and we all know theres NO perfect job I`m hoping you to LBC that you will stand up for Jeremy and if you knew Eric from STI or AVTA or from the cable co that you will stand up for both of our friends They are both seating at the right hand of OUR LORD
Give God RESPECT, it’s God- NOT god, lower case “g” is the devil!
really? god god god god god……… So you mean to tell me part of the alphabet is satan? news to me. Maybe you can respect the person’s comment, who was personally involved with the two men, instead of nit picking his capitalization, you [removed].
Hail Satan.
You really think a murderer has the same rights and the murdered? Wow. Unbelievable.
Who the hell cares?!
Stop acting like everyone knows the reason why he killed himself and his friend, it could be multiple reasons why he did it. All that matters that 2 guys are deceased instead of trying to figure out why, just give your blessings and move on.
Prayers go out to the family, I grew up with the whitmans(kind of) and his mom actually taught me in Sunday school and elementary school.
Amen. We lived next to Jeremy and his wife and kids on K4 for years and they were a happy family. Leave it at that everyone and stop guessing why he did what he did. Two young men are deceased and love one’s without husbands and daddy’s why do you post such hurtful stuff on here. May God be with all of you and your nasty posting.
Kim, I saw your post further down the column. You seem to be contradicting yourself. “Nasty posting” all the while saying that people turned their back on him at the church. How do you possibly know this for a fact? Please address the fact that you have misspoken.
BECAUSE ONE MAN KILLED ANOTHER IN COLD BLOOD! Man, if it WAS the gang-related incident people thought it was, there would be no excuse making or “let’s just leave it at two men dead.” No, this was a cold-blooded murder, and the murderer was a scumbag.
I’m sorry you feel that way..but everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. Just build a bridge and get over why he killed his friend and himself. We obviously aren’t going to find out the real reason. Just send your prayers and keep walking..
Except not only did this total scumbag kill another human being, but he also broke his own family and the family of the victim. I grieve and send my thoughts to the families and the victim. As far as the killer goes, I only send scorn.
Please do not say that. We knew Mr.Whitman and he was a great man. We were not in his shoes so do not judge him please.
RIP brother respect.
Dear God, please bless both the Ungerman, and Whitman families bless them in this time of grieving , may there be answers and peace (if answers do not come) we don’t understand this, nor do I think we ever will. God bless our community and the minds and hearts of all it’s people. In Jesus Name ~Amen
As I was reading some of these comments, I am reminded that very few people know the details of this tragic situation and yet quite a few people deem it appropriate to make assumptions and jump to conclusions. One thing I can say for certainty, God is in control, God is good all of the time, and LBC members and friends are praying for both families.
Our condolences to his Jeremy’s family and friends.
This is so sad, I met Jeremy years ago doing some work for him never met the victim. I cant imagine how a God fearing man end up sliding this far.
I pray for both families, thats all I can do!
When I saw Erik’s picture, I recognized him. He installed our TV last August. He was so friendly and helpful, teaching us how to use the system. We talked and laughed. He certainly knew his job and his customer service skills were excellent. He had to come back a second time, being very patient with us. His smile and laughter touched our hearts.
Our condolences to his family and friends. He was a fine young man and we are so very sorry.
I knew Jeremy Whitman for years and know all his family-wife, mother, father, sister, brother, in-laws and his children. Jeremy was an amazing person and an inspiration to all that knew him In all the years I knew him I never heard a negative comment about Jeremy or his family.
I’m sad for both these young men and their families, their friends, their co-workers and all the others who will be affected by this unbelievable tragedy.
May they all have the peace that passes all understanding and be comforted. Only God and Jeremy know what happened in Jeremy’s heart and only God can judge.
Life up prayers for all those who are affected.
I am saddened to hear of this news. It’s painful as some children have lost a father, two moms have lost their sons and many other people are affected by this tragedy. Prayers to many friends from Oklahoma.
Jeremy was NOT that nice of a guy , he shot and killed another human being, may he get what he deserves in the after life . Why did he have to kill another person, no sympathy for him , he should of taken his ownlife, since he was obviously unhappy! I cant stand churchie psycos like this his tru colors have shown!
It seems as though your true colors have shown as well, jenn. Be careful what you wish for. Will you get what you deserve in the after life???? Just what exactly do you deserve and who will be the judge of it? I dare say it will not be you. You can make a decision, but you don’t get to choose the consequence.
Iam not the one who murdered someone and killed myself i never said i wad perfect, but i sure aint gonna rott in hell for killing myself and someobe else, iam just glad I aint this jeremy (church freak ) fella .
I never said you were perfect. None of us are, but in your opinion Jenn, what WILL keep you out of hell? I ask in all sincerity.
but…. there is no hell
well… maybe in children’s stories, but we’re all adults here… right?
How can you be so sure? You seem to have faith in something. You apparently have some belief. What do you base your ideas on? If I die with my faith and go into oblivion with everybody else as you may see it, then so be it (which I do not believe however) and no harm done. But if you die without faith and end up in hell, well then… Think about it…
these people and their “afterlife”
Afterlife or no afterlife, point is jeremy obviously was not that “nice guy” that a lot of you seem to of known. And if there is a hell , that is were he belongs ! Yup it is a good thing it isnt up to me were he lands .
i’m on your side, so calm ure tits
It is up to God where Jeremy will “land” How about you Jenn? Where will you land? Ask yourself that question? Where will I “land?” Scary not knowing, huh? 1st John 5:13: These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. There is a hell and none of us has to end up there.
Jenn….
You are absolutely right! He doesn’t deserve heaven but you know what’s convicting???? We do not either. That is why God sent His only Son Jesus to die for the whole world. No one can be good enough to get to Heaven. Could you imagine what Heaven would be like if everyone made who deemed themselves good enough? That’s why Jesus came to earth to die on a cross. So that we as sinners would be given an opportunity to go to a Heaven if we place our faith and trust in Him. What an amazing God!!!!
Why the attempt to wax philosophical about a murder? Jenn is entitled to her opinion, which is valid and spot on.
You didn’t know him…you didn’t love him
We know he was capable of taking the life of another human being, and that in and of itself is enough. If he just took his own life, then yes there would be a lot more sympathy, but the moment he chose to track down and kill another person, that’s where any sympathy is. You all can say all you want how no one knows him, or how we should supposedly “worry about where our own souls end up” as if that is relevant at all. The fact is, this guy was a murderer, the same as if it was actually a scumbag gang member like everyone originally assumed it was. And judgement of the killer does not change just because it’s a Sunday school teacher instead of a gang member.
My heart is lost for words. My brother Erik was my hero and still is. My good and momma take care of you bro. Jeremyi pray your with him. I’m just so confused. I love you guys may your souls rest in peace!!
Kym your brother was a great man and father. He was taken from us too soon. I love you, I’m praying for your family.
kym its alfredo .. im sorry for your loss i will always love and miss erik
My prayers are with you and your family at this time!
Jeremy Whitman was a good man and this shows that he was in the need of help and no one came to his call! No man does something like this without showing some sign of a troubled soul. LBC pulls the curtain down over this like they are innocent but what I can’t help but notice and have experienced is that you all judge people like your GOD, and your not! People make mistakes and should not be casted out like a leopard for it. He was troubled and if any of you had opened yours judgemental eyes maybe you could of helped him and prevented him from taking his own life and another. A simple “Hey, how are you today?” Or “Is everything okay?” could have helped but I’m sure you people saw him an walked the other way. He had been through a lot and just needed someone who cared, but according to this church, if you make one mistake or leave the church you are considered a black sheep! Then you have those who will comment and say, “He was a good man.”, yet it was some of those people who would walk right by, without giving a decent greeting, acting like we wasn’t even their at church….a lot of people are fake and are wolves in sheepskin clothing and you disgust me! As for Jeremy Whitman, a real man! May you rest in peace and know that you will be missed by many!
how do you know all of this about how he was treated and such?
Jeremy was one of the good guys at that church. He was real. He really did care for others. It is apparent he made a horrible mistake because of the way the Church is back peddling so hard to get away from this. People at the church are “trained” to stay away from those who leave the church. I can see them shunning him. It is nothing but judgement there…..from the top down. Put on a pretty little smile, wear a nice little outfit, and, for goodness sake, don’t ever share your problems. It will shatter everyone’s rose-colored glasses. If one of those judgmental robots had reached out to him two people may still be alive today. My heart goes out to both families. No one can explain the what or the why, but it is truly tragic.
Considering that you don’t go to that church anymore, can you please tell me how you “know” that he was shunned by the people at the church? Just askin’. Also, if in your words, this is so tragic (and it is) why spew so much hate for those who may have known him and are saddened at losing him? Not quite Christian-like if you ask me. Maybe this is why Christianity is in decline. People like you give it and their God a bad name. Have you ever considered that?
What is truly sad is that many LBC friends and family are being gracious with their words, kind with their actions, and loving with their prayers for the families involved and what some of these people are posting has NOTHING to do with this very sad situation and EVERYTHING to do with just finding a thread to bash a church or a congregation of the church.
You must be one of those wolves. Turn your head lately on a person in need? If you know nothing about this situation and how people are mistreated and pushed away constantly and rejected for a mistake then the wool must be over your eyes as well.
Good luck with that.
Friend, to be honest I have no idea what you are talking about but thank you for making it easier to prove my point.
Exactly what I was saying…cover your eyes and act ignorant for us all.
As you and me get our points across, there is a church family who is helping and praying for the families involved. There will be a church family who will administer to the needs of the families involved long after our discussion. It’s not ignorance friend it’s a reality. The same people you call wolves will be the ones who will be praying into the early mornings for the families involved, preparing meals, buying groceries, and do anything and everything they can just to be a blessing. Have a goodnight.
Compared to what? You may not like it, but how do you know this for sure? What is your framework for such a statement?
My heart breaks for the families. Prayers to all involved….We as the public know how their lives ended so tragically but we dont know what they were going through.
Marym, I do want to say from my experience attending LBC that everyone i’ve gotten to know there are very respectful. They are not going to get in someone’s face and try to fix them. If someone SEEKS help, they are there as friends and listen and pray for you.
EXACTLY. Lancaster Baptist church only “cares” about you when you’re doing exactly what they want you to do. Once you “leave the church” (as they call it), they gossip about you, shun you, give you dirty looks, etc. Lancaster Baptist members are NOT very Christ-like. They knew Jeremy needed help, but instead of offering that, as Christ would have, they took the pious, holier-than-thou route. Sad and DISGUSTING. Jeremy was obviously in so much pain. And he was alone. Paul Chappell and the entire staff will be answering for this one day. It’s all about money, power, and control for them. They have no genuine compassion or care for people. RIP Jeremy. My deepest condolences to the family and friends of the victim. To lose someone you love in such a way is just tragic.
Amen.. LBC has been my church for years and I’ve personally seen them reject people in need and who just need help. It sickens me. People are so judgemental.. I personally knew Brother Whitman and I am in utter disbelief. I am praying for both families and sending my condolences. May they rest peacefully and I will see you again Brother whitman ♡♡
Very well said. Him and his wife and children lived next to us on K4 and then moved and we met again when he bought the house on K3. He was a great man and very happy all the time. My son went to LBC and said mom I do not like that Church and he never went again. I started to go there with our youngest a few years ago but didn’t feel like we fit in there so stop going. I agree I am sure they turned their back on him. Jeremy may you rest in peace now.
Kim, I know you and I’m not sure how you can factually say that people turned their back on him. PROVE IT!!!! Really Kim, I think you and I both know that you are misspeaking. You would be wise to say so. For the sake of the family and his friends.
Pressure from BeCareful! Say how you feel Kim. You don’t need to prove anything to that Bully.
Yea! The facts don’t matter! Just blurt how you feel: it make you and me feel a lot better!
Uhm prove it….isn’t it obvious!
Anyone who knew sweet precious Jeremy, knows that Jeremy didn’t do this. Not the Jeremy we knew…when he was in his right mind. He loved people. Chemical imbalances can scramble clear thinking, and confuse thoughts. Don’t be hard on him. Pray for the two hurting families. If it was really his finger pulling the trigger, I’m sure we will hear the rest of the story when we see Jeremy, once again, in his right mind, in Heaven.
” For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”
“If it really was his finger pulling the trigger “?”Don’t be hard on him “?
What drug do they pipe in to the compound, or are you all mesmerized by the piped in music?
He took a life, isn’t that addressed in one of your so called commandments? Smh…
I agree, after he snapped back to reality and realized there was no going back I could image what his last thoughts were….His five children!
He loved those kids so much and would do anything for them and worse part is that they are going to grow up knowing that their father was a murderer:( horrible.
Moses was a murderer. Kind David was a murderer. The Apostle Paul was a mass murderer and terrorist. Salvation trumped their flesh and sin problem.
Jesus had come into Jeremy long ago as his Saviour. Once in, Jesus never leaves or forsakes no matter what our flesh does to us having been deceived. Indwelling sin in Jeremy’s flesh was stimulated by something. God knows exactly what happened and why. He knew about all of this even before Jeremy got saved. Yet he used Jeremy as His servant when he was in his right mind and walking in the Spirit. People are hurting and emotional . We all need to go to our knees and to the Scriptures for comfort and wisdom in this matter from the LORD. Our culture and environment are riddled with substances that are mind altering. Saved Christians are not immune to this. Obviously Jeremy was not in his right mind. Let’s pray for the families and the church to heal and see many saved through this event. LRS
None of the men mentioned (Moses, David…) had the Spirit of Christ like new testament believers had. Sounds like Jeremy got into “sin” – life blowing stuff and tried to find an escape that didn’t include God.
He didn’t end well. Sin never does end well. But there is a church that might have helped, but …
I knew Jeremy years ago while attending Lancaster Baptist and he was even my adult bible class teacher. He was one of the nicest, friendliest men I have ever met and I am at such a loss as to how a change like that can take place in someone. I feel for and will pray for all of the family and friends of both men.
well some people finally realize that believing in fairy tales is for children
Please see my post reply above yours for “the ones that truly care”
God has a plan and purpose even for this event – Satan means things like this for evil while God trumps Satan and brings ultimate good out of it – beauty from ashes
Knew Jeremy. He was an awesome guy and has a great family. The kids are absolutely stellar children. Love them all. I am praying for both of the families. Praise the Lord for His finished work on the cross. Read John 10:29 – “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”
Jeremy was a good man, he was always trying to encourage others, one bad deed is not enough to condemn a life full of good. he may have made many mistakes in the last few months but as humans we all do. may he rest in paradise, and may strength be with his children and wife through these difficult days.
I agree, Jeremiah. The sad things is that they think exactly like that, which pushes people away.
P.S. I will see you later, Jeremy!
R.I.P
you dont go to heaven when you kill yourself sorry .. this man killed my childhood best friend .. its sad that he took his own life .knowing he knew god but …
That is not a biblical principle at all.
Romans 8:38-39
“38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
We do not know all the facts, we do not know all the angles. We can not be so swift to judge. Time will tell, or Jesus will when see him. God only knows for sure what happened.
I’m afraid your beliefs are very much distorted. There’s more to this story than the media portrays. Either way both men are dead and now all we can do is morn their loss. Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. So unless you are perfect I suggest you hold your a accusing tongue and focus your thoughts on more useful things such as comforting the family of those who have lost their loved one.
Father forgive us all for our fallings…we all do…. give strength to those who are weak and peace to those who suffer… bring Love into the hearts of man in Your sweet Name we pray Lord Jesus Christ Amen
R.i.p to both my prayers go out to the families
I am truly sad. I had a horrible time at that church. Many children came to me about their problems. He was such a good man-Jeremy. He took care of my family. He was so busy trying to please that church and finally you find your spirituality and can’t follow that church any more. I know of other young men that did the same thing. God is holding them in his arms. I am truly sad :-(
“your spirituality” When your doing things in the flesh, in your strength, anyone is bound to fail. There is only One we can trust in for strength, and His grace is sufficient.
Maybe he DID trust in God for strength. The strength to leave that church. Maybe that was Gods will for him, ever think of that Jill? Trust in God for strength he absolutely did. I can only imagine how hard it was for him to go against the “norm” and go toward whatever path he was being led to. but people like you never think of things that way.
I was referring to Joanne, but you insistence that God led the suspect to this is an interesting one…
I’m with Jill. I seriously doubt God was leading him toward this senseless act.
RIP! Thoughts and prayers to the family and friends of this senseless situation. May you all find peace. So said that a friendship had to end this way. :’(
May god comfort the families in this time of loss and guide them to better days.
Probably found out his whole life was a lie, there is no jesus and his cult of a chirch leader drove him to this…. now according to you people and your jesus he is in hell for killing hisself, this cult of a church is responsible, PERIOD! Iys on your head LBC
someone from his church just posted that he is in heaven because eternal life is based on what Christ did for us, not what we do or don’t for Him. He stopped going to the church last year…its too bad he did. This probably wouldn’t have happened if he was still going there.
Jeremy Whitman was a good man and this shows he was in need of help and no one came to his call! No man does something like this without showing some sign of a troubled soul. LBC pulls the curtain down around this like they are innocent but what I can’t help but notice and have experienced is that you all judge people like your GOD, and your not! People make mistakes and should not be casted out like a leopard. He was troubled and if any of you opened your judgmental eyes maybe you could have prevented him from taking his life and another. A simple “Hey, how are you doing today?” Or “Is everything okay?” Could of helped but I’m sure people saw him and walked the other way. He had been through a lot and just needed someone who cared, but according to this church if you make one mistake or leave the church you are considered a Black Sheep! Then you have those who will comment and say he was a good man and it’s some of those people who were the same ones that wouldn’t even give him a decent greeting when they walked by him at church…a lot of those people are fake and are wolves in Sheeps clothing and you disgust me! As for Jeremy Whitman, a real man!! May you rest in peace and know you will be missed by many!
@Nick, Really???? How do you know??? Did he tell you that???? I just shook hands with him a month ago when my husband & I bumped into him @ church & everything seem fine!!! Please stop blaming the church or anybody for that matter because nobody has the right to assume anything. My church is not perfect because for one thing I’m in it but I challenge you to find a perfect church. We can all speculate of what went on through his mind but it wouldn’t change a thing! Deepest sympathy to both families!!!!!
I don’t know who u are but just to correct you . I personally tried to reach
Out to him and he wanted nothing to do with me. He shut me out he shut
Lancaster baptist out and he did not think he needed help
Get your facts straight
Completely agree with you, Nick!!!
Your comment is…well, it lacks adequate adjectives to describe to be honest.
2ndly, your assessment and understanding of just what sends a person to hell lacks my friend. It is/was invented in the mind(s) of some weak person(s), namely you?
3rdly, your hatred spews out of your mouth. You’ve been hurt in the past by someone…that is obvious, however “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall sset you free.”
I just pray you don’t get a gun in your hand when you’re having one of the days that you seem to be having today when you got the news.
…sad…both all those involved in the tragedy, and your take on the whole thing.
How can you blame the church for that? You’re accusation has no basis. You just have something against God. Double check what you’re writing.
But focus on the family. They’re going through what most people will never experience. Hope they can pull together and come out stronger.
Nick is 100% right.
I know, I was raised in that church.
They pull the vail over their lies and deceit and act like they’re perfect God-fearing Christians.
Of course, not all members are like that, but the majority including the head honchos are not so innocent.
Jeremy Whitman was a good man, I can’t imagine what could have drove him to do this..
I can imagine what drove him to do this! His name is Satan. And if he can get a man like Jeremy to fail, it can happen to anybody. ANYBODY!!!
cracked out and still believing in satan lol
when will humans evolve past their dependency on religion???
Addressing the comment below:
A human will evolve past a dependency on religion the moment after death. They will instantly know that it had nothing to do with religion, but a relationship with Christ. Unfortunately though, it will be too late to have done anything about it.
Apparently it is now the comment above, that I was addressing. Haha…
You are wrong, in the sense that Jesus is real and does exists.
Just saying.
PS: I did not know the victim but hope and pray for his family and friends to find the comfort of God’s grace and love through Jesus and the salvation He provided.
The Jeremy Whitman I knew and met was a loving dedicated servant of the LORD Jesus Christ for many years…and has a beautiful family that also loves the LORD. There is much more to this story than we can (or should) know…and speculating posts by ignorant observers provides no help. God will use this and bring good from it in ways we cannot even imagine. We need to just pray and encourage those caught in the trauma of grief and loss BUT also KNOW there is eternal HOPE because of what Jesus did for all of us. Satan may destroy our bodies (with God’s greater plan still in complete control) but Satan can never have our saved souls and new born SPIRITS. We will see Jeremy in the eternal Kingdom! I base this on his personal testimony of the glorious Gospel having been applied to him by God’s grace and love in response to his faith in Christ alone!
Young Mr. Schmidt,
I remember Jeremy the same way. Your father and Jeremy were equally important God sent mentors in the life of my son. Jeremy attended my wedding and was a great blessing in my life when I attended LBC. He was always kind, loving and genuinely caring. I now live in Oklahoma, but I can honestly say my wife, myself and my son all loved Jeremy! We will pray for all involved. Well spoken Lance.
Just for clarity’s sake, the “Lance Robert Schmidt” above is my grandfather, not me. Did not want people to be mistaken.
Now that I’m on here, Jeremy Whitman will always be remembered to me as a great man who made a huge impact on thousands of lives. May God be with everyone effected during this tragic loss.
……And that murdered someone
R.I.P to both of them. I personally knew Mr. Whitman and he was a really good guy. He used to be my neighbor and use to take me to church with him. I never thought he would be capable of doing such a thing.
I knew him too. What would drive him this far?
No clue as I am in shock!
Did Mr. Whitman attend school at Desert High School?
Yes.
Don’t know why or how, but guaranteed that all the years seeing the hypocrisy as the right hand personal assistant danger close to a dictatorial and spiritually abusive cult-like leader who craves the worship of men certainly didn’t help. Look up a book called “The subtle power of spiritual abuse” on Amazon.com to see a great description and just how life-destructive such exposure can be. Just sayin.
Don’t know why or how, but guaranteed that all the years seeing the hypocrisy as the right hand personal assistant danger close to a dictatorial and spiritually abusive cult-like leader who craves the worship of men certainly didn’t help. Look up a book called “The subtle power of spiritual abuse” on Amazon to see a great description and just how life-destructive such exposure can be. Just sayin.
Well said Mike. Very kind words. Some are on this page just to put their 2 cents in. If they didn’t know Jeremy like we did then they should not comment on here. R.I.P Jeremy.
I didn’t know either of these men. But in stead of tying negative stuff. Send prayers to both families that have lost a son, brother grandson uncle. Please these families don’t deserve to read the negative stuff that people are reading. Sending prayers to both families..
This us sad, there’s more to this story. There had to be…Most of the
time it comes down it Money, women, and Power.
I feel for the families. I’m from AV and this stuff doesn’t happen
So was this over a woman or what? Any info out there? Seems like he was out for revenge. Idk ? What makes a married man with kids kill a friend then himself?
Finally someone gets it. This is a no brainer. Men with a good head on their shoulders don’t act this irrationally unless they are subjected to certain situations and I think this is probably the winner.
Maybe now someone will actually investigate the happenings at that church…….
It didn’t happen at the church. the suspect wasn’t going to the church any longer (maybe that was part of the problem). But maybe you’re right, maybe the murder-a-minute rate in the USA is due to that church. Or maybe you have a problem with that church? You should go investigate the happenings at that church and let us all know.
@jill, This doesn’t have anything to do with the church, it was way across town so don’t go there blaming the church. ……Brother Whitman was a mentor to my family and I for many many years, he has made an impacted on many people in his life time. My prayers go out to his family and the family of the other man killed. What ever happen was between the two men and NOT the church!!
I don’t blame the church (in fact, I blame the lack of church). MaryM blamed the church. That big church there on the east side has never done anything, but help people in this area. They are a pretty open door ministry for anyone who cares to see what they’re about. They even hand out their financial records once a year.
Church and religion turn people into crazy, judgemental lunatics. Look at what is going on in the world. Most of it is due in part to religion.
This is in reply to merle, since I cannot reply to his comment under this one.
Merle, so what you’re saying is that anybody who has ever murdered anyone in history has been religious? Atheists and religious people both have killed people before. I’m not religious myself, but you’re a [removed].
Agree, and let me comment on what Merle said…
Church and religion never HAS been the answer! In fact, Jesus railed on “religion” and those that appeared by all outward appearances to be a Christian.
You see, even Paul said of those, that they had a “zeal for God, but not according to knowledge” 1st of all. Also, had it not been for the teaching, preaching, spirit of God moving in hearts while he WAS in church, might this have happened years ago?
When the Spirit of God is removed from the earth, all hell will break loose because there will be nothing to restrain men. By someone’s statement, if he got out of regular church attendance, then he possibly has not had opportunity to let the Spirit work through teaching, the fellowship of the saints, etc…
Bottom line? PRAY!
R.I.P
This is a tragedy, not a poll to state opinions. 90% of you were not even anywhere around the incident or even heard the shots.
Again rest in peace, prayers out to both families.
I heard the shots, I was outside on J-13 & 20th West, so many shots, he unloaded on him, at the light and again past the light. That many shots I knew someone was dead. Whatever the reason, it wasn’t worth it.
It s a sad tragedy & I’m that God will give all involved, strength & comfort.
Meant to say praying
PPL NEED TO KEEP THEIR OPINION TO THEIR SELVES IF UR NOT ON HERE TO GIVE WORDS OF COMFORT.GO [removed] YOSELF!….DON’T SAY [removed] RUDE ….IT’S NOT EVEN UR BIZNESS JUS WAIT TIL IT’S U OR SUM1 U CARE ABOUT….THEN SEE WHT U HAVE TO SAY!!… [removed] ANTELOPE VALLY ANYWAY! MY HEART GOES OUT TO MY FRIEND ERIC ND WHOEVA LOVES HIM… R.I.P
Your friend? You didn’t even spell his name right. ERIK.
spelling nazi
I agree with you Krystle. People are so insensitive!
erik love you man rip miss you bro
Or does it refer to gang violence or drugs or racism.. People need to stop making assumptions about people you don’t even know.. they were both good men.. and sometimes in life thing get out of control.. but it had nothing to do with any of the above.. this is my cousin.. leave this article alone now..
Um. Well, at least one of them was NOT a good man because he murdered someone. So. There’s that.
One horribly bad decision does not make him a bad man.
In many ways, he helped people.
There is more to this story.
Ditto on that last comment. So sorry for the loss . R I P
Senseless. Sad for all families affected by this senseless tragedy.
Sad. Very sad. Praying for all involved.
It takes two to tangle; road rage gets out of control very easily. Idiots cutting people off. Idiots that just have to get to the side of the cones to jump in front of one more car…..Goes on and on. And girls lately are the worst of the bunch. False arrogance and pride will kill you.
So, to both the dead men..Was it worth it?
What made you think this was road rage? The victim and suspect were friends. Wouldn’t it stand to reason that there was something more going on to motivate this murder?
Jip Joe-apparently you MISSED the part that victim & suspect KNEW EACH OTHER FOR YEARS & were BEST FRIENDS for a long time. There was no road rage incident. Why don’t you learn to read before spouting off ignorant non facts. DUH
Jip Joe, these guys were best friends. I hate road rage, and the horrible drivers in the AV, but this doesn’t seem to be the case.
You should probably try reading the article again.
Uh…did you read the article at all? Nowhere up there does it say anything about road rage. It says very specifically that the suspect and victim were best friends for many years. This hardly qualifies as some random road rage type incident and appears to be over something very personal.
Didn’t you read, that they were both best friends for a long time? had nothing to do with Road rage.
Yes/No…
Although it didn’t speak of road rage, do not friends get upset and turn against each other at times? I’m not saying it was, or it WASN’T, but the fact that they were “friends” does not even factor into the equation.
If you’ll check records, MANY “friends” get at odds at each other, and in the heat of the moment sever ties…argue…fight, and yes, KILL!