36 comments for “Third Presidential Debate – Oct. 22

  1. really
    October 25, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    Watched Rachel Maddow tonight… She started talking about Paul Ryan being at fundraisers in states that Romney was ahead instead of campaigning in swing states. She smugly stated ” fundraising 13 days before an election” Now I seem to remember that just yesterday Obama was fundraising at Will Smiths house here in California. Being biased is one thing, delusional is something else. She then went on to say dont pay attention to the polls. The same polls she referenced just a few weeks ago. The next week on all the networks will be a nonstop Obamathon, their guy is behind so they are gonna go all out. Meanwhile nobody covers the Libya stuff… nobody covers the Navy Seals Dad who said that when he was recieving his Sons body, Hillary Clinton told him dont worry we are gonna arrest the guy who made the video. This was a few days after the attack. I cant wait to cast my vote to fire Obama. Mitt Romney had better do what he has promised or Ill be the first to throw him under the bus…

  2. Forward
    October 25, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Hector: “The rich are supporting this country, and you want ‘em to pay more?”

    The rich do not support this country, middle-class taxpayers do. If you feel beholden to the rich because you think you might get a trickle of benefit, like a job or your potholes fixed in front of your house, you’re in dreamland.

    Why do the rich want to eliminate the Capital Gains tax and the Death tax? Why do candidates such as Romney want to increase tax loopholes for offshore manufacturing, investments and bank accounts?

    Who’s to say Romney won’t bid against the dollar when he sees a ‘good deal’?

    Do you really believe that the Ryan Plan will pay for the top 1%’s increased tax breaks by slashing middle-class investments in Medicare, Social Security, eliminating Obamacare which benefits all Americans and forcing women to have God’s Will babies from being raped? What’s going to happen to all those children that will be born when mother’s are denied access to affordable health care for them and family planning?

    Everything looks good to those who develop spreadsheets, as that’s all they care about. Humans have become a commodity to the Right, like pork bellies. Give birth to more bullet stoppers to fight their corporate wars is the solution, to the bean counters. All those children, EXCEPT THEIRS.

    • Hector
      October 25, 2012 at 2:43 pm

      Forward- The top 10% earners in this country pay 70% of the country’s taxes. The poor should thank them the next time their EBT cards get charged up with the top 10%’s money. Since you are opposed to war, are you fuming at Obama for his continuous drone strikes that are murdering those poor terrorists who are minding their own business, sleeping or driving their cars while the evil, expensive American birds of prey fire those expensive, corporate-built rockets at them?

    • really
      October 25, 2012 at 6:09 pm

      Forward… I guess we will see in a couple weeks who the American people trust more to do the job. And we should know in due time if Romney is for all Americans or just the upper class. Besides look at the tax rates going back several years… Its been about the same, Obama hasnt done anything special to help the middle class…

  3. Tyrus
    October 24, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    WOW!!! This new guy, Mr.Mister, just hand two veteran AV Times posters a verbal beat down. Who is this new guy?

    • Hector
      October 24, 2012 at 4:59 pm

      Yeah what a beat down, Mister…..I mean “Tyrus”.

  4. really
    October 22, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    The President was very good tonight. Thats not to say he was right, just good. Romney was also good. There were some things that bothered me, they were good for the Pres because most Americans dont research things.

    1. Obamas zinger about horses and bayonets. If you look into it the navy had a number of ships as part of its operational plans for our changing military capabilities and threats. The navy was forced to change plans because of defense cuts. Not because we have airplanes now as Obama said. Romney was right and Obama warped his statement to make it a one liner. Not good when china is building a navy as we speak.

    2. Obama stated that currency rates were favorable which has lead to exports going up. Lost in that jargon is the reality. Exports are up because or economy and dollar are horribly weak. Labor and supplies are cheap because our economy stinks thus making it feasable to export goods at reasonable prices. This is a horrible thing…

    3. Obama was very ambiguos on China. Romney was crystal clear and we need someone to take on china if we ever want to stand a chance of a manufacturing boom in America that will last thru an economic recovery. Romney also clearly talked about intellectual property… Very good points in my eyes…

    4. Iran… The president touts his sanctions but didnt mention he granted many exemptions to those sanctions. Did you hear the lastest that Iran is planning to purposely crash an oil tanker in the straight of hormuz as retaliation for the sanctions. And im sorry the sanctions are not working. If they were Iran would have stopped pursuing nukes. The sanctions are causing financial hardship for Iran. That doesnt mean they will stop. Despots usually dont flinch when confronted, they usually double down.

    5. Syria… 30k civilians slaughtered and Obama says Assad must go, then…. nothing. He said Syrians must decide their future. They have decided, they want freedom and are being slaughtered because of it. Assad is every bit as evil as khadafi was yet we do nothing…

    • Backwards
      October 23, 2012 at 7:24 am

      Great points! Romney/Ryan 2012!

      • Hector
        October 23, 2012 at 8:55 am

        Yep…2012 AND 2016!

  5. Letlow
    October 22, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    “The Third Debate: Obama Wins on Style and Substance”

    –Joe Klein at TIME Magazine


    Klein perfectly sums up my assessment of this debate. It’s as if he was living in my head.

    • really
      October 22, 2012 at 11:57 pm

      I disagree…After Romney gave a crystal clear answer on China, Obamas retort was that Romney wants to outsource jobs… We get it Mr President, Romney is an evil man… But the President owes the American people an answer.
      When confronted on Iran, Obama said Romney owned shares in a chinese company that sold oil to Iran. Yes Mr President and your point is… The President then touted that he had ended the war in Iraq. This is silly, Even under the Bush Admin troops were slated to leave on a timetable nearly identical to Obamas. The President then said Romney wanted to have 10k troops still in Iraq. Your damn right he did! Even Pres Obama wanted 5k troops there still. The reason it didnt happen is because Obama couldnt get a status of forces agreement with Iraq. A huge failure! Without that agreement everything we did in Iraq was for nothing. Lastly the President all the sudden becomes Isreals Bff and offers no explanation as to why he said we needed space between us or why Democrats wrote him a letter urging him to change his tone. So Mr Letlow I strongly disagree with your opinion…

      • Backwards
        October 23, 2012 at 7:29 am

        Letlow you might wanna ease up on drinking the Kool-Aid. Romney/Ryan 2012!

      • Forward
        October 23, 2012 at 8:41 am

        What’s happening in Freeport, IL is a prime example of how BAIN Capital, under Romney’s methods of Harvesting manufacturing in this country to China completely destroyed America’s industrial base by sending our technology, patents and intellectual wealth overseas.

        This technology is now lost, and never to be retrieved ever again, as Obama has pointed out.

        To spend more money on our Industrial War Machine budgets, instead of new technology and education in this country is retro – not looking forward for generations to come.

        The US Gov’t INVESTMENTS in the past created the technology we now have and are using every day. Granted, these investments were in military communications and space technology which expanded into the private sector – so Romney’s claim that GOV’T DOES NOT CREATE JOBS is hypocritical. Either we invest in OUR country, or we don’t.

        It’s a very clear choice which proposals are best for Americans – and which one’s are only pandering to foreign bank accounts.

        • Hector
          October 23, 2012 at 8:58 am

          I see that “Eris” is back. Private industry (small and big business) create jobs!!!

        • really
          October 23, 2012 at 9:48 am

          This is exactly what I am talking about. You expect to persuade people to Obama by villifying Romney. Romney clearly stated his position in the debates. You would like us to believe that Romney is lying. There is more grounds to call Obama a liar ( broken promises on Debt, healthcare, unemployment etc…). And if you believe Bain is the reason jobs go overseas you are uninformed. Lastly Govt doesnt create jobs. Romney was exactly right when he said you give money to Universities and the military and Nasa as you stated. Obamas tactic of giving money to private business is wrong. When you do that you temporarily create jobs that are short lived due to a lack of support from the free market. The President claims to be for the middle class but he gave money to Fisker and Tesla. Both of these companies make luxury cars that are unattainable to the middle class. We gave money to A123 systems which General Electric invested in is now bankrupt. And if we were investing in these companies we should have gotten a piece of these companies so that at the very least if they became profitable our government would get paid for the investment.

          • Forward
            October 23, 2012 at 4:13 pm

            If anyone should know, Conservatives should — that trashing the opponent doesn’t work – as they’ve been trashing Obama since the day he was elected, and somehow he still gets the job done.

            Bain may not be the entire reason for the demise of our mfg, but a certain Bain CEO developed the methods of HOW jobs could easily be shipped overseas and we bled jobs (800,000 a month) in the last year of Bush’s presidency. This theft of generations of family-owned businesses, especially in the rust belt and the south, was the brain-child of Mr. Mitt Romney.

            Others, like Meg Whitman and Carley wazzername jumped on the bandwagon and followed the cash-cow — all Republicans, and all very wealthy.

            Obama ‘gave’ $$ to GM & Chrysler-and also bought SHARES in the company. They have since paid us back, and O has cashed out the shares for the US.

            Bush ‘gave’ $700 Billion-no-questions-asked to the crooked Banks & Wall St. – the banks have made back 3x the $$ and still won’t give Main St. a loan, as it’s more profitable, thanks to offshore $$ to bet on America failing. Bush & Congress should’ve demanded that there be strings attached to that taxpayer give-away….but they were too big to fail….

            All is history. Let’s move forward, educate our kids, Veterans and unemployed and get everyone back to work.

          • really
            October 23, 2012 at 5:52 pm

            Forward, you may want to check facts before you speak. The American People still own 26% of GM. They gave us 500 million shares as part of the bailout. They paid back some of the cash that was given but the Govt has to sell its stock to try to recoup the total cash we gave them. We cant do that because GM’s stock is not high enough to recoup our investment. Also you do realize that every American who owned GM stock before the bailout lost all their stock. Also why dont you provide some proof that Romney was the archtect of this outsourcing. Anybody can say anything. How about some facts….

          • Forward
            October 25, 2012 at 12:35 pm

            ” … Also why dont you provide some proof that Romney was the archtect of this outsourcing.”

            I’ve seen the vid from back in the ’90’s when Romney was hawking his wares to investors. If you’d pay attention instead of drinking the Kool-Aid, you’d know too.

        • Backwards
          October 23, 2012 at 3:06 pm

          What about Lier-In-Chief Obama’s Job Czar Jeffery Immelt CEO of GE? Didn’t he move GE’s health-care headquarters of its x-ray business to China? Hmmm….

        • Mr. Mister
          October 23, 2012 at 3:06 pm

          So my guess here is that all of you Rich Omitting Millionaire Never Explains to You supporters are very terrible mathematically, logically, morally, and very easily the manipulatee. So either you are really rich, which i doubt, or have very selective understanding of simple arithmeatic, foreign policy, and philanthropic values. Why should we police the world? Not our duty, if this was so, we’d go send troops into every single country, yes every single country where civil injustice exists. Because certain pundits, outlets, and your oh so precious deteriorating party says these are the countries we should step into, its now priority? If this were the view of the entire world, every country would have already invaded us in consenus. These countries have their own responsibilities for their actions. Where was our Katrina relief from foreign aid let alone 9/11, both non-existent, but yet when everyone else has a problem, we feel its necessary to spend tax dollars there, and for what? Maybe set up a military post for later? How many countries have military bases on US soil? Zero, now vice-versa the question and it appears to be a command and conquer iniative. And you think this is mney well spent?
          On to the Romney/Ryan Tax Plan, a lot shorter explanation, comes from my friend the calculator…ERROR.
          So lets nation build everywhere but our nation, definitely seems like the right thing to do to benefit the US economy and US citizens. Seems like every other country gets our tax dollars but us, but then the House of Republicans wants to refuse basic humanitarian necessities like food, time at the Dr.’s office, and a decent wage to the average/more hard-working than most American. Please look past your party affiliation and realize what will really benefit us, and it’s not a pyramid scheme (trickle down). And Kool-Aid really? I guess thats typical of the all hating rouge (not rogue)party. By the way, when sequestration happens, you’ll know it because of the House. Only thing really holding it up is letting Chicken Little’s tax cuts expire for the ultra wealthy, isn’t that kind of common sense to have them pay an equal if not higher percentage as they are more than well off? It’s not punishment, it’s morally, logically, and matheematically fair. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country…for the slow person, open your eyes.
          Bless this Mess

          • Hector
            October 23, 2012 at 5:41 pm

            I love how the poor hate the wealthy. Sounds like sour grapes to me! It takes a lot of work to be wealthy…why punish them?

          • Mr. Mister
            October 23, 2012 at 6:59 pm

            So because you are making 7 figures, which i personally doubt you are, because you would not be concerned with the Antelope Valley, it warrants paying a far less tax percentage? Don’t think so buddy. No sour grapes here, just smelling the rancidness of someone ostriching themselves into the likes of Faux News. As stated above, not punishment, fairness. Must be that selective understanding I previuosly mentioned. And I am actually pretty well off, mind you, in a 4 bedroom house, car with less than 14k in mileage, and a pretty decent job. But let’s just assume because I believe in fairness and advocate for all those most deserving but not born into wealth, that I am somehow in poverty. As one that strongly believes in fairness in all aspects of life, I do not see it as any way wrong for anyboday above the middle class to be paying a percentage equal to the lower and middle class. Anyone that believes it is unfair to be paying the same percentage (by the way Herman Cain wanted tax fairness) as everybody else, can walk with Hector here in solidarity and hope that you make it to lower Manhattan.

          • Hector
            October 23, 2012 at 8:32 pm

            So, explain why it’s fair that somebody making 300k pays 70K in taxes, and a guy making 90k pays about 30k in taxes? They both get the same government services. The only answer is “because they can”. Meanwhile, the losers in life who pay little or nothing are the ones using all the police, fire, prisons, welfare, etc. Can you make a simple argument as to why it’s fair? Just because a rich guy pays a smaller percentage, doesn’t mean he’s not paying. The rich are supporting this country, and you want ’em to pay more? If it’s so easy to be wealthy, why don’t you become wealthy?

          • really
            October 23, 2012 at 9:22 pm

            Mr Mister, what was your tax rate when all was said and done on your federal taxes last year? This idea that the rich dont pay their share is ludacris. The top 1% pay 37% of the tax burden. So keep on keepin on but your wrong….

          • Mr. Mister
            October 24, 2012 at 11:35 am

            Hector, you’re absolutely right, it is unfair that the person making 300k pays 23.33% of their income while the person making 90k pays 33.33% of their’s. Because Person making 300k makes over triple what person 90k is making, he gets to pay 10% less? You tell me how that is fair..It is not about the $ value you are paying in taxes, it is about percentage. If you buy a tv for $3,000 as opposed to a tv for $900, you do not get to pay a lower sales tax % do you? Why should income be any different? Person making 300k can live much more lavishly (and they deserve to, hard work should be rewarded, but not with double digit reductions in tax liability) than person with 90k. The wealthy at this time are posting record profits but are still reluctant to hire. If that tax break is being given, than the money saved should create jobs, not put it in the bank to hoard, after all the whole premise of the tax break is to create jobs in your eyes, right? So if job creation is non-existent and you’re still saving on your taxes, that my friend is greed. And if you are on the west side of Lancaster or Palmdale, which the wealthy generally are, you may notice more fire stations are in a close radius of each other than on the east side of either town, so no, the impoverished are not getting the same fire services. Hospitals, only on the west side of each town, maybe the east side has clinics, but certainly not hospitals. Prisons, I mean you’re really going to complain that you do not get to use it? It is keeping us safe after all, right? I’m also pretty sure police response rate is quicker on the west side of town, which is typically where the more fortunate reside, although an officer is more likely to show up on the east side for obvious reasons. They are there to protect and serve, and as eerie as it sounds, if we had an entirely low crime rate, a lot of emergency service personel would be out of a job. i’m not promoting crime, but in a strange way, it keeps our overly staffed sheriff’s dept busy. Not sure why 4 officers need to show up when a speeding ticket is issued. Waste of time and money if you ask me. I agree, welfare is broken and being abused, probably more often than not. It’s just unfortunate for the ones that are really trying to get a job and cannot, are being labled as a leech and a menace. Now I know there are leeches and manipulators with welfare, section 8, Calfresh, etc., we need to find a way to regulate the program better, because i certainly do not like my money going to slackers either. And i also do not want my tax dollars funding murder overseas, but it is. I’d prefer to give children an education, but we cannot control where our tax dollars go, and that’s unfortunate. I also pay into social security, which I’ll personally never see, as I am under 30 and let’s be honest, it probably won’t be there for me. Now i also am paying into services I’ll never see at a higher % of my income than the wealthy are paying of their’s and yet it is outlandish to want the more fortunate to pay the same effective rate? Someone’s just a tad bit twisted.
            Now on to ‘Really’, as long as your guy is in the business of tax return secrecy, I believe I’ll take that route as well, but i can tell you I paid at least double his 14%. And although the top 1% may be liable for 37% of the tax burden at dollar value, i can guarantee you, and everybody else, that the top 1% are not paying 37% individually on their income taxes. Because thier income is vastly higher, their tax dollars attribute to a higher face value. But again at percentage of total income made, it is the lower and middle classes who are being squeezed for more of their dimes. So who’s really ludacris? I will keep keepin’ on with the truth, and you continue to skew it for the people that are not proficeint in math and will believe you. Does answer your questions thoroughly enough? Maybe a little too thorough to where it is scary. Let’s hope people with minds aren’t reading, because they may actually be apalled. I wish you both the best of luck on Judgement Day.

          • Hector
            October 24, 2012 at 2:17 pm

            Mister, I knew you’d use the old percentage argument to justify your position. Based on that logic, is a perfect world, the rich should just pay more for the products themselves as well, based upon the rich guys’ income. Some day I’m sure the technology will be there to do that, unfortunately.

            Liberals and Obama and their view that the USA should strive to be “equal” with the rest of the world would ultimately lead to our demise. You guys don’t understand that the USA can be the best country in the world, and it should be. We ARE the world’s police because we are (or used to be) the strongest country in the world. We should stand up for our values and stop apoligizing for our strength. For example, after the Lybia attack, Obama, Hillary, and the rest should have immediately told the middle east that free speech is an American value and no apology will be givin for the video. But you guys don’t like the idea of projecting strength. Romney, like Reagan, will help reverse that. GO ROMNEY!!

            PS- Watch “2016 Obama’s America”. Watch and learn.

          • Mr. Mister
            October 24, 2012 at 2:57 pm

            Wow! You really do have selective understanding, don’t ya? Percentage is the fairest way to do it. Let me put it in terms you may understand…on the show the Biggest Loser, the winner is determined by percent of body fat lost, not total pounds, why? Because everyone is at a different weight level, similarly to everyone being at a different income level. If everyone had to pay your 70k in taxes, then people making under that would always owe the IRS more than they make. Fair right? Take an 8th grade math class and learn. So yes, based upon simple logic that percentage is the significant factor in any aspect of finance, you just look vastly undereducated in that department. All men are created equal, apparently not in Hector’s eyes.
            By the way, we are nation that is less than 300 years old, while other countries have been around for milleniums, yet we should go around telling them what is best for the world? Lets also forget the fact that we conquered this land from Native Americans, forced them to reservations, forced Mexico to give us California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas, but are reluctant to let their descendents in. Upon above said arrival by the English, we also decided to import africans and have them do the manual labor, similarly to the Jews building the pyramids in Egypt, not the Egyptians. Maybe you need an 8th Grade history lesson, too. And pay attention to an outlet other than channel 11. Obama said on the UN Floor that we support free speech, we do not criminalize it. And i agree with you on strength, but only when needed i.e defense, not offense without grounds for it. Tax dollars terribly spent and making the rest of the world despise us. Their is one gigantic reason that nations themselves, not organizations, refuse to attack America. Ask the Japanese, they had to be the example of what we are capable of and why COUNTRIES do not try anything. Defense system, sure, offense system with no support from our Allies, absolutely not.
            And look up the fact check on the cinema you are recommending, everything we’ll say was mythbusted.

            Capitalism: A Love Story, may do you one better.

          • Hector
            October 24, 2012 at 3:20 pm

            You could have summed all that dribble up with “spread the wealthy’s wealth around”.

          • Mr. Mister
            October 24, 2012 at 3:32 pm

            Man, like talking to a rock. It’s still just a rock in the end. Funny thing is that if Herman Cain was the nominee who touted tax equality, you’d be for it. Grow some brain cells and think on your own. Yes, mathematically it is most fair for everyone to pay the same percentage. If you pay more tax dollars, the IRS isn’t cutting me or any others you deem as peasants a check, right? Everyone pays the same percentage is of the utmost fairness and equality, something we claim as a nation to be. Funny how you never have anything to actually say that means something.

          • Mr. Mister
            October 24, 2012 at 3:36 pm

            And i apologize i break down every aspect of what I am describing, something your guy is terrible at. Let’s just use generalized expressions and ideas with no specifics. That is obviously what you like, so why not have a general tax code with no specifics or loopholes. God no, not in that sense, right?

          • Hector
            October 24, 2012 at 4:41 pm

            What would make sense is a consumption tax, which unfortunately won’t happen. First of all, this would require everybody (including those working under the table, illegals, criminals, etc.) to participate. Most fat cats would end up contributing more, but it would be by choice…and those wealthy people who decide that they don’t want to contribute could live like paupers if they wanted to. By the same token, if poor people want a pool table or 70″ TV, they’re welcome to it…and they can pay their “fair share” if they so choose. I’m done now. Gonna take my Lamborghini for a spin.

          • Mr. Mister
            October 24, 2012 at 5:02 pm

            Now there’s an idea. I actually partially agree with you on that. Some aspects of that idea don’t work correctly but as a generality it could work with fine tuning. BTW sales tax is categorized as a consumption tax, by which everyone pays the same percentage ;) now you’re for that hmmmm?
            Not sure when a Lexus became a Lambo, but you enjoy your ride nonetheless.

          • Hector
            October 24, 2012 at 5:10 pm

            Other than sales tax being too high, I have no problem with it because it lets the consumer decide how much to pay based on his lifestyle. And unfortunately for me the Lamborghini (and the Lexus for that matter) is way beyond my means. I’m actually in a similar economic situation to yours as you described above.

          • Mr. Mister
            October 24, 2012 at 5:43 pm

            Well my friend, we’ve come to that terrible point in opposing views where we finally agree. Salutations good sir. Have a good week.

          • Hector
            October 24, 2012 at 5:53 pm

            Ok man. It took a while but I’m glad that we eventually found some common ground. Have a good one yourself.

          • really
            October 24, 2012 at 8:36 pm

            Mr. Mister.. I 100% agree with you that we should have one tax rate. Everybody should pay the same percentage across the board. I also think filing taxes should be done away with. Set the percentage, deduct it from paychecks and be done with it. I have posted before that deductions for homes and kids are unfair. I support Romney over Obama but lets not act as though my vote means I am a raging Romney fanatic. I believe in conservative principles but would also give credit to Obama if he were doing a good job. I will admit that sometimes I will play a very partisan part to get under some blatant partisans skin ( William). For you to say that you payed double what Romney paid tells me something is up with your post. There is no way, unless you are making well over six figures that you paid that. Especially if you itemize. The other thing is that capital gains are taxed at 15% no matter who you are. It is hard for you to seem rational when you advocate that people pay one percentage across the board but have issue with romney paying most of his taxes based on the one rate that is structured in the way you advocate. I do have to say I enjoyed reading your post…

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